In a development with the shocking potential to upend the U.S. presidential election, ten Electoral College electors have requested further insight into President-Elect Donald Trump’s alleged ties to Russia to determine “whether Mr. Trump is fit to serve as President of the United States.”
Led by Christine Pelosi, daughter of Democratic House leader Nancy Pelosi, the group of ten electors penned an open letter to Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, stating:
Allegations that Donald Trump was receiving assistance from a hostile foreign power to win the election began months before Election Day. When presented with information that the Russian government was interfering in the election through the course of the campaign, both in private briefings and public assessment, Donald Trump rejected it, refused to condemn it, and continued to accept their help. Donald Trump even made a direct plea to the Russian government to interfere further in the election in a press conference on July 27, saying, ‘Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing.’
Indeed, Democrats and a smattering of Republicans touting utterly unverifiable reports from unnamed CIA officials and unprovable corporate media articles published by the Washington Post and New York Times have seemingly gone out of their way to link Trump to the Putin administration — thereby discrediting the democratic outcome of the 2016 election.
But claims of Russian interference — running the gamut from responsibility of hacks of the Democratic National Committee to a coordinated, State-sponsored propaganda campaign implemented by alternative media outlets — have been thoroughly discredited, if nothing else but for a complete lack of evidence.
Nevertheless, the electors say they “require to know from the intelligence community whether there are ongoing investigations into ties between Donald Trump, his campaign or associates, and Russian government interference in the election, the scope of those investigations, how far those investigations may have reached, and who was involved in those investigations.”
And that “We further require a briefing on all investigative findings, as these matters directly impact the core factors in our deliberations of whether Mr. Trump is fit to serve as President of the United States.”
It would seem truth has recently been put up for debate, judging by such articles as the Washington Post’s “Secret CIA assessment says Russia was trying to help Trump win White House,” for which the outlet quoted an unnamed and thus wholly unvettable agency official allegedly briefed on an intelligence presentation, stating,
It is the assessment of the intelligence community that Russia’s goal here was to favor one candidate over the other, to help Trump get elected. That’s the consensus view.
While mainstream presstitutes repeatedly harp on the vagaries of Russian meddling in the U.S. elections, a number of level-headed analysts and journalists have denounced the allegations as hysterical McCarthyite fearmongering to deflect from damaging contents of documents published by WikiLeaks.
Alarmingly, the ten electors cite the unfounded so-called news articles from corporate media in their letter to Clapper:
According to reports in the Washington Post, New York Times, and other outlets, the United States intelligence community has now concluded definitively that the Russian interference was performed to help Donald Trump get elected, yet even today Mr. Trump is refusing to accept that finding. In response to the reports, the Trump transition office instead released a statement which called into question the validity of United States intelligence findings, and declared the election over despite the Electoral College not yet casting its votes. Trump’s willingness to disregard conclusions made by the intelligence community and his continuing defense of Russia and Russian President Vladimir Putin demand close scrutiny and deliberation from the Electoral College.
In fact, while countless corporate outlets spread the evidenceless CIA claim like steel truth, the intelligence community-at-large is not at all in full agreement on the accusations.
According to an unnamed high-level FBI official, the Bureau is not at all in agreement with the CIA on allegations Russia actively interfered with the U.S. electoral process, calling the agency’s report “fuzzy” and “ambiguous” — and saying the FBI is refusing to corroborate the apparently baseless and dangerous accusation.
This modern Red Scare — if not called out for the anti-Russian propaganda it constitutes — could not only be the final unraveling of the shreds of an American free press, but could see the overthrowing of a democratically-elected leader of the United States.
It would be more than worth noting the CIA — the same agency behind these alleged confirmations Russia has interfered with the election — has been responsible for the overthrow of myriad foreign governments. Whether or not those leaders were elected democratically had no bearing on the agency’s subversive and military tactics when U.S. foreign policy dictated the putative necessity of such a move.
To imagine such a departure from the democratic process on American soil — regardless one’s feelings about a Trump presidency — is to recognize the power of pure, evidenceless propaganda in motion.
No proof of the CIA officials’ allegations have yet been offered for public scrutiny and investigation. No evidence of Russia coordinating to thwart a Hillary Clinton presidency has yet been proffered. Nothing evincing an active Russian state hand in U.S. politics has yet surfaced — anywhere.
Astonishingly, that appears to matter little to the very electors in whom American voters entrust with the highest office in the land — and instead have placed the burden of proving the baseless reports on President-Elect Trump, himself, stating:
Additionally, the Electors will separately require from Donald Trump conclusive evidence that he and his staff and advisors did not accept Russian interference, or otherwise collaborate during the campaign, and conclusive disavowal and repudiation of such collaboration and interference going forward.
How Trump is supposed to provide evidence of something that didn’t take place has been lost on these ten electors, who have opted for the running ‘guilty until proven innocent’ narrative of the new McCarthyism.
What chilling effect their demands will have on the one vaguely democratic power held by the people of the United States — the election of a president of their choosing — has yet to be seen. But by every indicator, this could be the final canary call of a once free land.
Claire Bernish writes for TheFreeThoughtProject.com, where this article first appeared.
Image Credit: chrisdiontewalker
Trump is exposing all the traitors to this country and her people.
He is and that would be everyone but Tulsi Gabbard and Rand Paul. Get out the
guillotines for the rest as they are clearly traitors that need a close haircut.
Ya and it’s almost half the country too. Especially in the ranks of the menial millennial snowflakes and other ethically challenged, pro-war and assorted left wing types…
Do you think Trump is going to take steps to return control over the internet to the American people (government)??
Former Bush DHS Secretary Michael Cherthoff (dual citizen) is an example of one person selected a number of years ago to sit on a powerful international committee planning the transfer of the internet to the UN and other international organizations.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/computers/item/19326-who-will-control-your-internet
Point well taken. The California non-profit that distributed web addresses was internationalized, officially, some 4 years ago, and did so by moving ICANN offices outside the U.S. (mostly to the Middle East). The Internet is a US invention and US asset of great importance to Free Speech and Freedom. If you surveyed 10,000 Americans, 99.99% would be ignorant as to what has taken place with the US Commerce Department eschewing involvement and the take-over of ICANN.
If you by chanced skimmed the New American article, you may have noticed Ester Dyson is the founding chairwoman of ICANN. Not only is she a globalist stooge, she’s been a big booster of UN Sustainable Smart City Skolkovo, Russia’s version of Silicon Valley, a major Trilateral Commission project (think Brzezinski, Kissinger, Bushes, Clintons, Cheney (both), Greenspan, Summers, seemingly ad infinitum Who’s Who global elite minion list) backed the the bankers, Bill Gates and the Silicon Valley usual suspects. Skolkovo was also a focal point for Hillary’s State Dept “Russia Reset” program that facilitated the transfer of advanced classified US technology with military applications to Russia, for which Hillary’s office received a formal FBI letter of “extraordinary warning”. It all comes full circle! The gutting of US sovereignty by TPTB including Hillary herself greasing the Skolkovo skids (with the help of Podesta, another Trilateralist) and yet here we are reading about the alt sphere colluding with Russia. Can’t make this stuff up! 😉 P.S. In an example of history repeats and / or rhymes, it was Trilateralist Kissinger as Nixon’s Sec of State who spearheaded the transfer of advanced classified missile technology to the USSR to close a big technology gap. As Prof Antony Sutton explained, Kissinger used the reverse logic excuse that the move would tame their expansionist ambitions.
I left a long response a day ago, and Activist Post censored it. Not sure how to get vital information into these blogs when Activist Post can censor at will.
We need a think tank comment site. I need to ask around regarding strategies to mitigate professional disinfo attacks. There’s a smart group of folks at Black Listed News exchanging ideas, still need to wade through chaff as everywhere, though, there’s virtually no censorship and some familiar posters would have your back and much gratitude for any nuggets of wisdom you might want to pass along. Just food for thought.
Hi, See Janus. The link and reply I should have left for you was a simple single dot connection to a WSJ article on China’s internet power grab and the projected trillions in data collection profit, “Internet of Things”, etc. Apologies for the previous big data dump! I often worry censorship will cut people off compelling me to squeeze in TMI. Cheers, Blue
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-authoritarian-internet-power-grab-1477436573 [behind paywall, tip: Google title then use Google link to access full article – technique works for most MSM paywalls]
Did Russia force CNN ( Donna Brazile ) to give the debate questions to Hillary in advance .?
Excellent point (re: debate questions given to Hillary)….. Additionally, blaming the Russians is simply their Red Herring distraction approach. A thinking person would ask, “even IF the Russians hacked anything, isn’t it true that the wikileaks emails were in fact TRUE ??”.
The CIA Director is a Muslim… experts at lying.
Did she get all the questions for the Matt Lauer townhall? She blew up after the townhall because Lauer asked her a surprise question about her emails.
I don’t think Trump got any questions in advance.
Of course there is no concrete reliable independent evidence that suggests removing a duly elected president-elect is the thing to do. However I think this is just the tip. I think the Islamist and and Globalist cabals (including of both parties) will stop at nothing to destroy what is left of the USA, including Civil War. The reason is because the USA cannot stand free and democratic and have Globalism succeed as well. The two are irretrievably incompatible. It’s just not possible.
OK you’re right. So let’s just shit-can globalism and those in this country that support it over the American brand of nationalism and making America great again.
Not so sure it’s that easy or simple, it requires more reflection. Reports out today say that Globalist Bill Gates commented that (to paraphrase) “Trump is like JFK” and it gives me the creeps. Did Globalist Bill Gates just foretell Trumps’ assassination? I don’t know? But we are faced with a global war I think. It is Globalist Totalitarianism vs Western Civilization. Trouble is we have a lot of Globalists within the Western Civilized nations. Globalism and one’s Individual liberty cannot coexist, it’s not possible let alone a country.
If Trump is successful and finishes out two terms, the globalist’s will lose it all and maybe without a (proverbial) shot being fired…
I saw Bill Gates on FOX Business today too but being from western Washington state myself and seeing him on the news countless times, I thought he was just excited (as he usually is especially when he’s talking about tech) because of their discussion of Trump’s many great ideas in regards to the future of this country similar to JFK and what he may have done had he lived longer. Anyway, global totalitarianism will have no place in this country except in (re)negotiated trade treaties agreed to by BOTH sides. Otherwise what we have is what we have today. And after Trump’s historic election 6 weeks ago now that will NOT be permitted to continue.
You have a slogan, …Great Again. Who will do it, with what skill set, your keyboard and slogans will not train the proletariat masses required to bring in tRumps’ glorious Glory for the Homeland. There are a dwindling few with the skills to make and produce things in this country.
The unions used to teach the SKILLS, but they are evil to the profits of the 1/10th of One Percent who have ripped off your future. Sure, it was the Kenyan! Ha! Blame the Kenyan!
Nobody has yet ripped off my future. Maybe yours got snagged but mine didn’t. I see this country in a completely different light. There’s over 300 million people in this country with most being of average intelligence with some really smart people like Donald Trump sprinkled around to benefit the others. Our Gov’t while not perfect is better than almost anyplace else and we’ve been blessed with ample natural resources. Compared to where some others reside in their location in our world, North America is a great location comparatively speaking. Anyway when it comes to the future of this country you obviously see the “glass representing America as being half empty”. And while after 8 years of abject failure of the Obama administration most couldn’t be faulted for still thinking like that, I choose instead to concentrate on the way forward and how the election winner Trump and his policies, especially those concerning globalist politics and ending the unending wars plaguing this country and the elimination of both (unlike crooked Hillary and her neocon ilk who are warmongers) will benefit not only this country but the entire world.
Just watch the boondoggling of FEDAnd STATE fire crews at forest fires. Morons milling about everywhere mostly looking to be fed…and so few that can actually work to the task at hand.
Anyone left that can do basic things that bring about shelter, food,clothing etc. The answer is yes, Mexican people hold many keys now to survival in the so called America’s
They clearly need to be executed on the spot if they even think of
betraying the millions who are finished with the tyranny of the pervert
in the White House and his perverted friend Hillary.
Brzezinski’s NWO “Technotronic Era” is a Globalist technocracy. In a recent issue (12/2/16) of TIME magazine, a review of a book written by pro-Technocracy minion Parag Khanna outlines his goals.
Check out the very first “solution” – problem – reaction.
“5 Radical Solutions to Fix Our Busted Government”
1. Abolish the electoral college
2. Create a streamlined and expert Cabinet
3. Replace the Senate with an Assembly of Governors
4. Let the Supreme Court modify the Constitution
5. Restore a strong federal service that knows how to run a country
https://www.technocracy.news/index.php/2016/12/08/breaking-time-magazine-openly-promotes-technocracy/
Khanna’s bio http://www.paragkhanna.com/about-parag-khanna/
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/21b5e1908db6d87e29d1df4e28610b1c761ad126c26f4cfbaa3638e5de1950c2.jpg
Thank God and the Founder’s for the 2nd Amendment. It’s funny how all these foreigners know how to “fix” our country better than all of us who happen to still live here. All those globalist credentials…I’m not impressed. Nationalist credentials, something he’s lacking, would be more impressive. Anyway, looking over his list and you can tell he’s been watching too much CNN and MSNBC to be taken seriously…
Yep, Khanna’s bio tells it all CFR, Global Governance Fellow at Brookings, US military intelligence adviser, etc, etc. His ilk are now more dangerous than ever, they’re directly “hacking” into our system via big insidious moves – and the alt sphere is not raising red flags such as the transfer of internet control and the multinational corporate take over natural resources.
Our own corrupt government with the entire DNC along with George Soros tried to rig the elections and lost their collective backsides. Follow the money trails.
Is there a comment section out there where paid Islamphobes don’t hang out?
Go ahead. But wouldn’t that be treasonous?
The daughter of PeeLousy cannot be trusted any more than the Hildebeast or that horndawg ex potus or the no-name potus.
The folks here are spot on.
Trump will ‘fix it and fix it fast’…Wings over the Rockies summer 2016.
Drain the Swamp.
the people(democratic mob) chose Hillary. This fact alone, completely destroys this entire article.
Sorry, that’s not how the system works. Perhaps this electoral college system could be repealed some day, but not in the midst of an election. Plus, rust belt states would no longer have any representation or influence on national elections.
So Hillary lost within the framework of the current system that has existed all our lives, and that’s all there is to it.
These lefties make like there hasn’t been massive exposed vote fraud by the DNC. Subtract the million+ illegals and the rigging and suddenly she doesn’t even win the popular.
How many of those votes were cast by illegal immigrants? How do we know the vote counts weren’t rigged in Hillary’s favor even though she lost?
We know that far more than 3 million votes were cast by illegals.
Wrong country. You want to pretend the Electoral College has not served our nation as intended by the Founding Fathers for over 300 years. Find another country.
That’s how the system has worked FOR OVER 300 YEARS. Since the VERY BEGINNING. If Trump had won the popular vote and Hillary the requisite number of electoral votes (in this case, 270), can you tell me you would be screaming for Trump to be in the White House, instead of HiLIARy, BECAUSE THAT’S HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS?
Yeah… I didn’t think so. Your argument is morally bankrupt, because you are a hypocrite. Move along, kid.
The Election results are clear: Trump lost by 3 million. Now the slave era Electoral College will reverse the election results, which in plain terms is a coup, legal or not. Slavery was legal; why should a device created by the slave owners who wrote the Constitution deprive us of awarding the Presidency not to the loser (Bush, Trump) but to the winner. This is not about Trump or Clinton, both despicable, but about honoring the voice of the people and providing consent and thereby legitimacy to the President. Overturning the election results can never support “consent of the governed.”
This is about democracy and equality and consent and should not be a partisan issue: all votes should be counted equally, not as distorted by the 538 party loyalists in the Electoral College.
Please provide any sources you have for making such a misstatement. Where is it proved that there was a 3 million vote disparity? And, can you think of no other reason why each State would not want to have consequence in the Election process, regardless of the mass vote?
As I wrote above: “More than 2.8 million voted for Clinton than Trump. The EC is expected to overturn the election results, ie a coup. A person who is rejected by the majority has no consent and therefore, according to the Declaration of Independence, is not legitimate.
http://uselectionatlas.org/RES…”
“REAL-TIME NEWS FROM AL.COM
Hillary Clinton’s popular vote lead over President-elect Donald Trump has topped 2.8 million, the most recent figures show.
Clinton received 65,756,948 votes, or 48 percent, to Trump’s 62,913,088, or 46 percent, according to tracking by Cook Political Report.”
Here is the data from the Cook report:
Clinton Trump
“U.S. Total 65,789,306 62,950,229
The Cook report is Compiled from official sources by: David Wasserman @Redistrict, Cook Political Report @CookPolitical
*Denotes Official/Certified Results;
What is your source? Mine is the official, certified results.
Let me be clear. You’re a Troll.
He is worse than a troll. And if the situation were reversed – and Hillary had lost the popular vote but won the electoral vote – he would be singing the praises and genius of the Electoral System. He is a globalist shill.
Are you one of Trump’s morons who think he won the popular vote? I despise both Trump and Clinton, so you are wrong on all counts. My agenda is democracy. I voted for Sanders, then Stein. You are lying and you know it. I have been anti-globalist all my life. See my articles at Quora and opednews to confirm. I know you won’t for you fear the truth and so attack those who present it with libelous lies.
I have been against the Electoral College since it was designed by the slave masters to ensure their rule.
You are lying…and you know it. That makes you a troll, doesn’t it, Burke?
Democracy is the tyranny of the majority. Remember when you weren’t picked for kickball on the playground, because you were a little creep? DEMOCRACY AT WORK.
That’s what the slave owners said; that’s what Hitler said. Democracy is majority rule/inviolable rights for all. Your insults show you are aligned with the fascists.
Rule of the minority is tyranny; rule by the majority is democracy. It’s clear which side you are on. Democracy requires: inviolable rights, independent judiciary, free and diverse media, informed citizenry, culture of tolerance, and majority rule.
Those who call democracy mob rule, like Hitler, are promoting fascism, whether by slave owners or Nazis. Mobs are always minorities seeking to disrupt the majority rule. Democracy is a deep tradition, enshrined in our Declaration, with its core values of equality and consent of the governed. The minority can never confer consent for the majority.
Do some homework and go beyond your fascist brainwashing.
Repeating a lie does not make it true. Let ME be clear: Trump lost by 2.8 million in the actual election. Stating facts is not trolling: calling those who present facts and sources trolls IS!
First rule of trolling: call those who present facts trolls.
What has Trump done that is so “despicable”? Has he overthrown a couple of counties leading to the death and displacement of millions? Has he received funds from countries that fund ISIS? Did he receive debate questions in advance of the debates? Did the RNC collude to get him the nomination? Oh, he made some off-color remarks about women!
The CIA owned/controlled Washington Post is showing just how much the upper Twits at the CIA fear a Trump administration that might actually require some accountability on the part of the CIA. Let’s face it, the CIA is totally out of control, running Perpetual War scenarios on every Continent and supervising terrorism in the US. The Intelligence community is well aware of Hacking that’s been going on since the Internet was created by all sides. If Nancy Pelosi and her daughter, now trying to make a name for herself so that another political crime family can endure, didn’t know about “hacking”, then they are unconvincing liars. And, then, the average American should be grateful to the Hackers, Russian or otherwise, who finally revealed the naughty, nasty corruption and scheming going on in the DNC. That the DNC thought they could really get away with their criminal misconduct and now want Americans to see them as “Victims” is over the top. Of course, those twits who still need Safe Rooms and coloring books merely need to hear the word “victim” to yell “foul”. Shall we agree not to become a country of folks who cannot read or read with zero critical thinking skills?
You forgot about the CIA’s massive world wide drug running
Course not. Waited for you to mention it.
Аль-ЦРУ Duh сделал переворот в 1963 году, так что еще один. И ведущие заряд является дочерью Нэнси “вы должны проголосовать за него, прежде чем вы можете прочитать его” Пелоси. Если это не воняет как гнилой мертвой рыбы !! Время, чтобы вырваться из вилы и факелы и чистый дом мы сами!
Al-CIA-duh did the coup in 1963, so what’s one more. And leading the charge is the Daughter of Nancy “you’ve got to vote for it before you can read it” Pelosi. If this doesn’t stink like a rotten dead fish!! Time to break out the pitchforks and torches and clean house our selves!
There is one heck of a lot of fear-of-discovery to do this much to keep out an outsider of government. A lot of money to be accounted for, and the probability of corruption.
No he did not. There is no evidence to support your number. None. In point of fact a critical assessment using common sense and logic suggest the other. Troll
Donald J. Trump Michael R. Pence Republican 62,916,237 45.99%
Hillary Clinton Tim Kaine Democratic 65,758,070 48.07%
More than 2.8 million voted for Clinton than Trump. The EC is expected to overturn the election results, ie a coup. A person who is rejected by the majority has no consent and therefore, according to the Declaration of Independence, is not legitimate.
http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php
Left a long and clear message responding to yours and it was censored and suppressed by Activist Post. Your source is scurrilous. Also, the numbers of illegals voting exceed 3 million. I don’t know how to get the truth printed to counter your opinion when the truth is openly censored and suppressed by Activist Post.
You won’t get away with this. Are you people sure you want to go this route?
You have a slogan, …Great Again. Who will do it, with what skill set,
your keyboard and slogans will not train the proletariat masses required
to bring in tRumps’ glorious Glory for the Homeland. There are a
dwindling few with the skills to make and produce things in this
country.
The unions used to teach the SKILLS, but they are evil to
the profits of the 1/10th of One Percent who have ripped off your
future. Sure, it was the Kenyan! Ha! Blame the Kenyan!
You believe the Mango Dictator?! The Orange Guy w i l l TAKE YOUR GUNS! You heard it here before the inauguration. Be afraid, be very afraid. He has you running like sheep with guns pointing at each other.
Benghazi was, Betray us, David Howell Petraeus. He served as Director of the Central Intelligence Agency from September 6, 2011, until his resignation on November 9, 2012. At 9:40 PM, September 11, 2012 the attack occurred. CIA operatives died. He cut and RAN, less than a month after the attack. But he is not held responsible by you COWARDS . They were his men, CIA operatives. READ & LEARN. But you blame the woman. COWARDS. To your faces, I say COWARDS. “Betray us”, David Howell Petraeus has plead guilty for divulging Classified Information, but you blame the woman, again I say COWARDS!
You have a slogan, …Great Again. Who will do it, with what skill set,
your keyboard and slogans will not train the proletariat masses required
to bring in tRumps’ glorious Glory for the Homeland. There are a
dwindling few with the skills to make and produce things in this
country.
The unions used to teach the SKILLS, but they are evil to
the profits of the 1/10th of One Percent who have ripped off your
future. Sure, it was the Kenyan! Ha! Blame the Kenyan!
You
believe the Mango Dictator?! The Orange Guy w i l l TAKE YOUR GUNS!
You heard it here before the inauguration. Be afraid, be very afraid. He
has you running like sheep with guns pointing at each other.
Benghazi
was, Betray us, David Howell Petraeus. He served as Director of the
Central Intelligence Agency from September 6, 2011, until his
resignation on November 9, 2012. At 9:40 PM, September 11, 2012 the
attack occurred. CIA operatives died. He cut and RAN, less than a month
after the attack. But he is not held responsible by you COWARDS . They
were his men, CIA operatives. READ & LEARN. But you blame the woman.
COWARDS. To your faces, I say COWARDS. “Betray us”, David Howell
Petraeus has plead guilty for divulging Classified Information, but you
blame the woman, again I say COWARDS!
Hillery, the democrats and some republicans are against Trump. The liberal news people are fanning the flames. Nobody is asking about hillery’s 30,000 E-MAILS she deleted. F.B.I. in with Obama administration sure did a outstanding job of helping hillery out.
Might the sanity of these 10 electors be brought into question……since they seem to be ‘spoon fed’ issues that OTHERS have tried to interject into everyone’s minds and thoughts….most people have seen the folly of such assertions…except maybe 10…..who may be required to see a shrink before they get a ‘security griefing’…PS hay pelosi..just ask your mother ,since she sits in on briefings about hacking…she can tell you it is all just a lefties wish….imho
Picture Perfect recipe for chaos!
Set up the scenario where an Internet time machine must be developed to venture into the dark Web and record all data that might occur or that may or may not happen,,,only then may one establish a recognized standing to contemplate an acceptable “presumable innocence”. …
Christine Pilosi is one scurrilous personage in the image of her reprehensible mother, Nancy Pilosi.
Nothing matters to them except winning.
And they don’t care if they destroy the faith in our institutions to win because those institutions are irrelevant to their globalist rulers.
No, the electoral college may not have a briefing by anybody.
Give up! Hillary lost thanks to people like me that saw hoe corrupt she is along with OBAMA. 8 years of suffering is too much!