Doctors Sound Alarm as State of Emergency Declared over CA Gas Leak: Leave Now

gas leakBy Claire Bernish

California Governor Jerry Brown finally declared a state of emergency on Wednesday, concerning the ongoing, currently unstoppable methane gas leak spewing from Aliso Canyon that has created a nightmare for residents of Porter Ranch.

“I will tell you, this goes well beyond Porter Ranch. We’ve had complaints from as far as Chatsworth, Northridge, and Granada Hills,” emphasized Los Angeles City Councilman Mitchell Englander during a Porter Ranch town hall meeting on December 28. “Apparently this plume of toxic chemicals and whatever it might be, doesn’t know zip codes […] This is the equivalent of the BP oil spill on land, in a populated community.


Aliso Canyon sits less than two and a half miles from Porter Ranch and less than 30 miles from the city of Los Angeles — the second most populous city in the United States — whose outlying total statistical area includes nearly 18 million residents, as of 2013.

Brown has been widely criticized for lack of decisive action on the leak, which is erupting from its underground storage area with all the force “of a volcano.” Under Wednesday’s declaration, “all state agencies will utilize state personnel, equipment, and facilities to ensure a continuous and thorough state response to this incident.”

Porter Ranch residents have been evacuating the area for some time, though SoCalGas’ rather maladroit handling of the relocation procedure has been a nightmare — and the cause for a mounting number of lawsuits, including one from the L.A. city attorney’s office.

Los Angeles City Attorney Mike Feuer filed a civil lawsuit last month concerning the massive methane leak’s impact on area residents’ health and damage to the environment — which alleged failure by SoCalGas to prevent the leak and further exacerbation of “the effects of that failure by allowing acute odor and health problems faced by the community to persist for more than a month, to say nothing about the indefinite time it will persist into the future.”

Pediatrician Dr. Richard Kang gave an ominous warning during the Porter Ranch meeting, saying, “Unfortunately, the only real way to get away from the symptoms is… you have to relocate — you have to get away from the environment.” Health complaints include severe headaches, nosebleeds, respiratory issues including increasing cases of asthma, and a number of other issues.

SoCalGas, in the meantime, stated they were “providing air filters for people’s homes,” but though “the odor added to the leaking gas can cause symptoms for some, the gas is not toxic and county health officials have said the leak does not pose a long-term health risk.

But, as the Los Angeles Daily News reported on December 25, “Los Angeles County health officials said prolonged exposure to trace chemicals, some of which are known carcinogens, can cause long-term health effects.” Nevertheless, they also “cautioned that levels examined so far here are not believed to be associated with long-term health problems.”

The gas company says, ‘This is just the smell you’re reacting to, it’s just temporary, it’s not a problem, it’s not serious’ — these people aren’t stupid,” said attorney Rex Paris. “How could somebody possibly say that? We have children whose noses are bleeding every day, we have people who suffer from chronic headaches [and] are nauseous every, single day. How does that not become a serious issue? Why are they saying something nobody here believes? […] They’re trying to convince everybody that it’s all in our heads. It’s a trick.

In fact, as Erin Brockovich pointed out, “no one really knows the long-term side effects of benzene and radon, the carcinogens that are commonly found in natural gas.”

Additionally, area house pets seem particularly vulnerable — possibly acting the part of unwitting canaries — as veterinarian Dr. David Smith described in the town hall meeting. Noting he has seen dozens of sickened animals, Smith said, “I’ve seen dogs, cats, birds, pocket pets… the primary symptoms I’ve seen are gastrointestinal vomiting […]These are not things you should be inhaling.” He added, “We have seen dermatological issues as well, some very unusual bacterial infections in dogs,” including one case in which a dog had such an infection on its face, and “the client developed almost the exact same kind of symptoms soon after that […] their physician thinks it’s related [to exposure from the gas leak] and so I tend to think these correlations are real.”

Though the declaration of emergency states “the Division of Oil, Gas, and Geothermal Resources shall continue its prohibition against Southern California Gas Company injecting any gas into the Aliso Canyon Storage Facility,” it does not make that moratorium dependent on stoppage of the leak; rather, only “until a comprehensive review, utilizing independent experts […] is completed.”

Physician Dr. Brooks Michaels, addressing the town hall meeting, gave the sternest advice to those still in the area surrounding the unprecedented leak:

If you have a chance to leave, if you’re able to leave… if you have a chance to relocate, do it now. I’m telling you, it’s really critical.

Understandably, Brown’s state of emergency seems almost too little, too late for many.

You can watch the Porter Ranch town hall meeting here:

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  • dale ruff

    It’s time to end the fossil fuel addiction and go totally solar/wind. It’s cheaper and clean.

    A solar installation pays for itself in 5-7 yrs and then provides 20 years of free energy.

    Molten salt solar plants can now provide energy nearly 24/7. Batteries can store energy for night time use.

    During the day excess solar can be sold back to the utility company and then if necessary, energy can be bought back at night. As battery technology improves, solar will be able to provide energy for your home, business, and car 24 hrs a day.

    “SolarCity CEO Lyndon Rive thinks today’s rooftop solar energy systems will be out of date within five years.

    Not because the systems won’t still be generating electricity. They will.

    And not because Rive thinks solar power will fall out of favor. He doesn’t.

    Instead, Rive predicts that the rooftop solar systems of the future won’t just generate electricity. They will come with sophisticated batteries that also will store it, allowing consumers to tap into the electricity their solar panels produced even when it’s dark outside.

    “Within five years, around that time frame, every solar system we deploy will have a storage system tied to it,” Rive said.

    “I think that’s going to be the big game changer.”

    SolarCity took its first step in that direction this spring, when it began offering to pair its rooftop solar systems with batteries made by electric car maker Tesla Motors. Rive’s cousin, entrepreneur Elon Musk, is the CEO of Tesla and SolarCity’s chairman and biggest shareholder. Tesla is building a $5 billion battery “gigafactory” in Nevada.”

    cleantechna.com reports that solar parity is coming much faster than predicted:

    “In 2015, six of the largest metropolitan areas are already at solar parity, representing over 30 million Americans. That’s one-third more people living with solar at parity with utility electricity prices than in our original analysis, when we calculated that 2015 would bring parity to just two metro areas”

    This includes such eastern cities as New York City.

    “In 2017, the five-year point in our original, the population at parity is likely to be 71 million instead of 51 million. By 2021, 109 million Americans will be at parity, instead of our original prediction of 95 million.”

    Deutsche Bank reports: “March 10, 2015

    Deutsche Bank report: Solar grid parity in a low oil price era

    Despite the recent drop in oil price, we expect solar electricity to become competitive with retail electricity in an increasing number of markets globally due to declining solar panel costs as well as improving financing and customer acquisition costs.

    Unsubsidized rooftop solar electricity costs between $0.08-$0.13/kWh, 30-40% below retail price of electricity in many markets globally.”

    Europe already has parity and large regions of the US, China, South America, the Middle East and Australia have already achieved parity. As solar prices decrease and the oil price war ends, the parity will be accelerated.

    Deutsche Bank explains why:

    “Peak to trough, average monthly natural gas prices have decreased ~86% over the past 10 years. Yet, during this time period, average electricity prices have increased by ~20% in the US. The main driver for rising electricity bill is that T&D investments which represent 50% of bill have continued to ramp and have accelerated recently. In 2010, T&D capex levels of for US Utilities ~$27B were ~300% higher than 1981 levels. We expect electricity prices worldwide to double over the next 10-15 years making the case for solar grid parity even stronger.Solar System Costs Could Continue to Decline

    The economics of solar have improved significantly due to the reduction in solar panel costs, financing costs and balance of system costs. Overall solar system costs have declined at ~15% CAGR (compound annual growth rate) over the past 8 years and we expect another 40% cost reduction over the next 4-5 years”

    • steadcore

      What if the suns rays are diminished 20 to 30% due to geo- engineering such as chem trails that no one seems to add to the picture?

      • dale ruff

        If sun rays are diminished by chemtrails (for which there is no scientific evidence), it would lead to cooling, not heating. The fact is that the 3.5 million flights a year release contrails which form into cirrus clouds which warm the atmosphere, part of the warming caused by greenhouse gas emissions.

        If chemtrails (which do not exist) diminished the sun’s rays, how would that lead to warming?

        How stupid are you?

        • Steadcore

          Your chin is glued to your chest Einstein! Can you look up at any time out of your busy day to look up and observe these same aircraft day after day sometimes even flying next to each other continually spraying and zig zagging until the whole sky is milked out. These are not normal flight patterns of passenger planes by any stretch of your delusional imagination. Science is observation if your taking someone else’s word on something so in your face undeniable you need to check your state of mental health and the so called professionals your listening to.

          • dale ruff

            Starting with an insult is standard for someone who has not rational response. I watch the skies every day and have for years. I have googled and studied the flight patterns as well. Have you.

            I live in the

            Santa Cruz mts where hundreds of flights each day cross over to land at the San Jose Airport. I also have closely observed in the Sedona, Az area where there are few people. This areas is where the S/N and W/E flights; you can see it clearly on the flight pattern maps. This is where there are frequent crisscrossing patterns, following the commercial flight paths.

            My observations are confirmed by the studies of actual atmospheric scientists who find no evidence of widespread spraying for geo-engineering.

            Looking up and claiming you see a chemtrail is not observation but interpretation. What you see are persistent contrails, which you can confirm in established flight pattern, frozen water vapor from jet emissions in the stratosphere above 30,000 ft where commercial flights cruise.

            Your ad hominem insults demonstrate you have no evidence and so must resort to gutter sniping. I urge you to study flight pattern maps and then correlate to the trails you observe in the skies. They will match exactly but if you are afraid to learn you have been deceived, you can continue your offensive personal insults and defend your unscientific claims. It’s up to you.

            I love this illiterate and incoherent and fallacious sentence:

            ” Science is observation if your taking someone else’s word on something so in your face undeniable you need to check your state of mental health and the so called professionals your listening to.”

            I am taking someone else’s word of course: the atmospheric scientists. And I have confirmed their claims by comparing commercial flight maps with my own observations. I urge you to do the same.

          • Steadcore

            So I guess your opinion is a collective idea based on a bunch of phonies who are bought and paid handsomely to come up with their handlers desired data outcome to keep people like you totally clueless. Your not fooling anyone!

          • James Paul

            Steadcore, Dale’s observations are better than your observations because the government said so….LOL

          • Steadcore

            Hilarious! Entertaining though!

          • James Paul

            Well said Steadcore, Dale is a government shill trying to discredit people and spread disillusion.

        • Steadcore

          Replace your word contrails to chemtrails and cirrus to chem and you’ll get the picture you idiot.

          • dale ruff

            I take such insults as a badge of honor since it demonstrates you have no rational response. Insults are the weapon of the impotent. You are shooting blanks, friend.

            I suggest you google commercial flight maps and compare to your own observations in the sky, as I have done for years. And I suggest you look up the logical fallacy of ad hominem.

          • William Burke

            You make me laugh all the time! No, it’s not a good kind of thing.

          • James Paul

            LOL, Dale says “Insults are weapons of the impotent” then he asked some above how stupid they are. I guess he takes the little blue pill…LOL

          • James Paul

            Notice how Dale keeps repeating how he has been doing this for years. This should impress all of us and we should throw our collective intelligence out the window. That fact that Dale has been refuting chemtrail claims across the internet for years should send off a bunch of red flags.

          • Cat411

            He says it’s his hobby.

        • Michele Brown

          “How stupid are you”? The intention by spreading these is to cool the planet.
          That said we have been cooling, whether you elect to believe this or not, it is a fact. These are not contrails, they are what they are purported to be. There is no reason one cannot differ and still remain respectful.

          • dale ruff

            Contrails from 3.5 million commercial flights a year form cirrus clouds and warm the atmosphere.
            What you claim are chemtrails are contrails, which you can confirm by studying flight maps and comparing to observations of vapor trails.

            The last decade was the warmest in recorded history.

            “2001-2010 was the warmest decade on record, the WMO noted, and added that the last three decades had been warmer than the previous one.”

            I repeat: how stupid are you? Ignorance is the beginning of wisdom, but stupidity is holding to false views even after the evidence has been presented.

            Contrails are purported by atmospheric scientists to be congtrails.

            This is not a difference of opinion among scientists but clinging to a myth in contradiction to atmospheric science. In my humble opinion, with all due respect, that is not a difference that can be explained by anything other than willful ignorance, which is the definition of stupidity.

            It is very very stupid for a person with not even one class in basic climate science to think he can refute the overwhelming research and consensus of working climate scientists. You can remedy this but if the shoe fits,, wear it.

          • William Burke

            You are obviously some sort of disinformation agent, or either you are as dull as a sack of wet mice.

          • James Paul

            That is true William, Dale has been refuting chemtrail truthers for years. I have had several conversations with him over the last few years. It appears to be his specialty within the Obama administration. I don’t know many people who would take that much time out of their day to try and convince people they are nor seeing what they are seeing If they were not being paid to do so.

          • dale ruff

            I am an independent and have nothing to do with the government. My loyalty is to science. I am retired and my hobby is exposing the lies (“his specialty within the Obama administration”) of people like you who use personal accusations as a replacement for evidence. You are lying and even you know it. Obama doesn’t need sock puppets since 97%of the world’s climate scientists confirm his efforts to reduce emissions.

          • James Paul

            Yip 97% have been bought, 3% have integrity.

          • Cat411

            Ahhh, your loyalty is to SCIENCE… that explains everything.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            And Fake science at that….

          • dale ruff

            You give truther a bad name. i am a 9/11 truther, knowing that the Bush regime lied about the events of 9/11, as the 9/11 Commission has documented. What evidence do have that the worlds atmospheric scientists are a conspiracy to lie?

            I would suggest you have no evidence and as a substitute for scientific support, you make false accusations for to cover up your lack of integrity and factual information.

          • James Paul

            Yip, the lies stopped with Bush and the 9/11 Commission. Government scientists would never dream of lying to cover the truth like Bush did…lol. In one sentence you say government can’t be believed and the next you tell me they can. Go away!!!

          • dale ruff

            No, William I am a very well informed individual with a world class education who (sadly) is not paid to expose the fallacies of folks like you.

          • James Paul

            Dale is the best informed, he wins the internet. Our information is null and void….lol

          • William Burke

            Dale is a friggin’ dipshit.

          • john

            William Burke is the friggin’ dipsh!t not dale…William has cooties na na na na na na… Ha ha ha ha ha he he…

          • Cat411

            Oh for god’s sake. What are you.. 12 yrs old? Go back to youtube!

          • Debbie O’Grady

            Typical shill response – when backed into a corner INSULT

          • dale ruff

            Your laughter is fake; your sarcasm pathetic. It is that I am best informed but that I have the intelligence and humility to listen to the atmospheric scientists of the world who consider chemtrails as nothing but fake science.

            You have presented no evidence,just claims. And when you are asked for evidence, you respond with insults, covering up your lack of factual information.

          • James Paul

            Keep patting yourself on the back, let me give you a “Ata Boy” because you deserve it. You are more persistent than even the most “persistent contrail” !!!!

          • James Paul

            I have not insulted you at all. I called you a government hack a few time, if the shoe fits wear it. Everyone sees your MO Dale, “Show me the evidence” but when people do show you, you dismiss it and ask for more evidence. We could dump a mountain of evidence in your lap and you would ask for different evidence. As long as you are asking for evidence you make it appear that no one has refuted your claim. It has been refuted many times and now it time for you to accept the facts.

          • dale ruff

            You are now lying to deny your insults. Not only did you lie (I do not work for the government) but a hack is a negative term to describe a person who works without moral integrity.

            No one has shown me any evidence in 3 years, James. What they say, when I ask for evidence (ie peer-reviewed research) , as you do, is that I wouldn’t accept any evidence if you showed it. That is a lame dodge. No one has refuted not MY claims but the claims of actual atmospheric scientists.

            Claiming it has been it is refuted is not refutation but a dodge.

            What I get is not evidence (telling me to watch a youtube video is not evidence; scientists do not present their work in videos but documented publications in peer-reviewed journals) and insults. “If the shoe wears it” is just another insult, in reference to being a government hack. Your lying insults demonstrate your inability to provide sources of evidence. Geoengineeringwatch is run by a former defense/fossil fuel engineering firm and has no atmosspheric scientists on its staff and is not peer-reviewed.

            When I point this out, I usually get the scientifically illiterate propaganda claim that peer-reviewed is meaningless or bought an paid for.

            I dismiss your insults as evidence of your failure to find reliable evidence and your lies as a form of moral corruption in an effort to mask your inability.
            If you can’t win fairly, cheat. If you can’t provide real evidence, smear the person who demands it.

            Only a person without any scientific education accepts your concept of evidence (ie opinion by non atmospheric scientists) as credible.

            AT least own your lies and insults if you have any integrity left at all. YOu cannot find one actual atmospheric scientists whose research backs your claims. If you can, present his evidence with source. Put up or shut up.

          • James Paul

            wow, that was a lengthy reply that says nothing that you haven’t already said. Sorry dude, it looks like 100% of the people here feels the same way, you are a hack. Not just me……..EVERYONE!!!

          • dale ruff

            “4% of voters say they believe “lizard people” control our societies by gaining political power

            – 5% believe exhaust seen in the sky behind airplanes is actually chemicals sprayed by the government for sinister reasons”

            public policy polling.com EVERYONE!!! is the 5% who believe in chemtrails, about the same group that believes in lizard people, one of whom has posted above with no criticism.

            The truth is worth repeating: there is no scientific evidence for chemtrails and many reasons to think the myth is promoted by the fossil fuel industry, which is actually killing millions each year with its dirty energy, costing the public 6 trillion a year in subsidies according to the IMF.

            You belong to the small group of scientific illiterates who lack the critical thinking skills to see through the industry propaganda you have have swallowed like Kool Aid at a Jim Jones suicide assembly.

            100% of brainwashed people does not equal the knowledge of one actual atmospheric scientist. I have a proposed a way for you to do your own research: why do you refuse to find out the truth for yourself?

            I am tired of your ignorant stubborness. You can believe the propaganda or the science…you can conduct your own research by matching trials to published flight paths, as I have. Or you can keep your head in the sand with the 5% who also have theirs in the sand, refusing to do a simple research project independent of any outside influence. Get back to me after you have conducted the research I propose. Otherwise please leave do not waste my time with more hot air.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            Liar

          • dale ruff

            How is asking questions lying?”

            Where is the evidence?
            Where are the pictures?

            You are substituting libel for reason, both criminal and fallacious.

            Where is your evidence for chemtrails and that I am lying?”

          • Debbie O’Grady

            Go look for your OWN evidence shill I am not here to spoon feed you

          • Cat411

            You want evidence, you want pictures.. well, I posted some links for you, Dale. Read em and weep. Then pay up.

          • Cat411

            I give you the evidence you’ve been begging for and what happens? You clam up. Not a word from you since.

            Go figure.

          • dale ruff

            I looked at the research. Here is what the author found:

            ” (1) Comparison of 8 elements analyzed in rainwater, leached from aerosolized particulates, with corresponding elements leached into water from coal fly ash in published laboratory experiments, and (2) Comparison of 14 elements analyzed in dust collected outdoors on a high-efficiency particulate air (HEPA) filter…”

            Fly ash is one of the residues generated by coal combustion, and is composed of the fine particles that are driven out of the boiler with the flue gases. It is a well-known pollutant which finds its way into the atmosphere, water, and ground.

            The research in no way shows that this fly ash comes from spraying by tankers but merely that it can be found in dust and water, which requires no more explanation than that it has settled from coal combustion pollution.

            This article was retracted in 2015:

            “Int. J. Environ. Res. Public Health 2015, 12(9), 10941-10942; doi:10.3390/ijerph120910941

            Retraction

            Retraction: Herndon J.M. Evidence of Coal-Fly-Ash Toxic Chemical Geoengineering in the Troposphere: Consequences for Public Health.Int. J. Environ. Res. Public Health 2015, 12, 9375–9390

            Excerpt: It was brought to my attention that there are problems related to the recently published article “Evidence of Coal-Fly-Ash Toxic Chemical Geoengineering in the Troposphere: Consequences for Public Health” [1]. […]”

          • dale ruff

            The evidence is of coal fly ash in trophsphere, which is a result of ordinary coal combustion pollution. The research does now show evidence this pollution is from spraying by tankers. In addition, this article has been retracted due to “problems.”

            No one doubts there is coal ash fly in the atmosphere as you can observe it being released from coal plants. This pollution source totally explains its presence in the atmosphere, water, and dust. The now restracted study makes no factual claims about the source but speculates (which is not science) that it may come from spraying, but zero evidence for this is presented. That is why it was retracted. What it showed evidence has long been known. What it speculated was the cause is supported by zero evidence and is not necessary to explain the presence of coal fly ash in the environment.

            Coal ash fly is very toxic and kills.

            “Every year, the nation’s coal plants produce 140 million tons of coal ash pollution, the toxic by-product that is left over after the coal is burned.Coal ash pollution contains high levels of toxic heavy metals such as arsenic, lead, selenium, and other cancer-causing agents. Coal ash is not subject to federal protections, and state laws governing coal combustion waste disposal are usually weak or nonexistent.

            Fly ash is the part that escapes into the atmosphere and pollutes the troposphere, water, and soil

            The toxins found in coal ash have been linked to organ disease, cancer, respiratory illness, neurological damage, and developmental problems. People living within one mile of unlined coal ash ponds can have a 1 in 50 risk of cancer—more than 2,000 times higher than what the EPA considers acceptable.

            Coal ash contains arsenic, lead, mercury, and selenium, as well as aluminum, barium, boron, and chlorine. All can be toxic. Particularly where there is prolonged exposure, these toxins can cause cancer, heart damage, lung disease, respiratory distress, kidney disease, reproductive problems, gastrointestinal illness, birth defects, impaired bone growth in children, and behavioral problems. In short, coal ash toxics have the potential to injure all of the major organ systems in adults (including pregnant women) and children.

            Exposure to toxic coal ash can lower birth rates, cause tissue disease, slow development, and even kill plants and animals, leading to changes in wildlife concentrations and disruptions to entire ecosystems. The toxic pollution from coal ash builds up in exposed animals and plants, causing the pollution to make its way up the food chain when they are eaten. Children are more susceptible to the health impacts of coal ash—and according to the EPA, 1.54 million children live near coal ash storage sites. Not only is coal ash toxic, it is also likely to grow increasingly dangerous.

            Air pollution control technologies, like scrubbers, selective catalytic reduction, and activated carbon injection, capture mercury and other hazardous air pollutants and are able to stop increasing amounts of toxic pollution from going up the smokestacks. However, when those pollutants are captured they are shifted from the air to the coal ash. Mercury and other pollutants that previously contributed to air pollution are now becoming solid wastes—and when they leach into water, their toxicity is carried into the water as well. Unfortunately, one toxic environmental problem is being traded for another. ”

            The poisons that are not captured and stored in piles are released into the atmosphere.

            sourcewatch.org reports: “Coal-fired power plants that sell electricity to the grid produce more hazardous air pollution in the U.S. than any other industrial pollution sources. According to the report details, over 386,000 tons of air pollutants are emitted from over 400 plants in the U.S. per year. Interestingly, while most of the power plants are located in the Midwest and Southeast, the entire nation is threatened by their toxic emissions. An ALA graph shows that while pollutants such as acid gases stay in the local area, metals such as lead and arsenic travel beyond state lines, and fine particulate matter has a global impact. Particle pollution from power plants is estimated to kill approximately 13,000 people a year

            3.7 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2), an amount equivalent to chopping down 161 million trees. CO2 pollution is the principal human cause of global warming and climate change.

            10,000 tons of sulfur dioxide (SO2), which causes acid rain and forms small airborne particles that can cause lung damage, heart disease, and other illnesses.

            10,200 tons of nitrogen oxide (NOx), equivalent to half a million late-model cars. NOx leads to formation of smog, which inflames lung tissue and increases susceptibility to respiratory illness.

            500 tons of small airborne particles (particulate matter), which can cause bronchitis, reductions in lung function, increased hospital and emergency room admissions, and premature death.[14]

            220 tons of hydrocarbons, which contribute to smog formation.

            720 tons of carbon monoxide (CO), which causes headaches and places additional stress on people with heart disease.

            170 pounds of mercury. 1/70th of a teaspoon of mercury deposited in a 25-acre lake can make the fish unsafe to eat. Mercury also causes learning disabilities, brain damage, and neurological disorders.[15]

            225 pounds of arsenic, which leads to cancer in 1 out of 100 people who drink water containing 50 parts per billion.”

            Those who release these toxic emissions are promoting the chemtrails myth to shift blame for the pollution from themselves (they shift the cost of health and environmental damage done to the public) and seek to demonize the one agency which can reduce these emissions,the government.

            114 pounds of lead, 4 pounds of cadmium, and other toxic heavy metals. These toxic metals can accumulate in human and animal tissue and cause serious health problems, including mental retardation, developmental disorders, and damage to the nervous system.[16]

            Coal ash, the hazardous waste that remains after coal is burned, can also contain: chromium, which can cause stomach ulcers, anemia, and stomach and lung cancers; selenium, which in excess can cause impaired vision or paralysis; and boron, which can cause eye, nose, and throat irritation, or in large amounts damage to testes, intestines, liver, kidney, and brain. All effects can eventually lead to death. [17]

            Aging coal plants “grandfathered” in after passage of the Clean Air Act have been particularly linked to large quantities of harmful emissions.

            To learn how wealthy fossil fuel oligarchs are funding the anti-global warming and chemtrails campaigns, I urge you to read

            http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/inside-the-koch-brothers-toxic-empire-
            20140924

            http://polluterwatch.com/koch-industries

            or any of dozens of other investigative articles which document both their contribution to coal pollution and their funding of anti-environmental lobbying and propaganda.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            Well said Cat and my point precisely,

          • dale ruff

            Or I am reporting on the findings of actual atmospheric science and you are either a paid sill or a dolt.

          • James Paul

            I can look in the sky on any given day and simultaneously see some planes that leave persistent contrails, some that leave nothing and they both appear to be traveling at the same altitude. Given these facts your theory is blown out of the water. “The overwhelming research and consensus of working climate” is created by who? The answer…..wait for it……wait for it…..GOVERNMENT scientists. You forgot to use government as the adjective in your sentence. We all know how truthful statistics and theories from our government can be because Obama never lies and you can keep your doctor by the way.

          • dale ruff

            No, you see contrails form only in freezing weather in the stratosphere where commercial flights cruise. A plane can go in and out of freezing temperatures and so contrails will form only when the plane goes thru freezing temps. The stratosphere has varying temperatures. I learned this from atmospheric scientists.

            Most climate scientists in 180 nations work for public and private universities, corporations, and 180 governments.
            A climate scientist at Harvard or the Sorbonne does not work for THE GOVERNMENT.
            The Exxon scientists who discovered global warming and its cause in burning fossil fuels worked for Exxon. The climate skeptic who did the Berkeley Earth Project was funded by the Koch brothers. There are thousands of climate scientists in private universities, public universities of 50 states and dozens of corporations.

            Your paranoia has blinded you to reality.

          • James Paul

            lol at 10,000 to 50,000 feet its all freezing, go away you government hack.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            Do you just copy and paste that everywhere you go ?

          • William Burke

            Yes. These are the facts.

          • dale ruff

            Facts are based on evidence..You have no evidence.

          • James Paul

            Evidence shows you to be a government hack, go away.

          • dale ruff

            I challenge you to provide the evidence for your accusation.
            How do we know you are not a paid hack of the fossil fuel industry, which is documented to have funded sock puppets to discredit global warming and who benefit from the chemtrail mythology? How do we know you are not a pedophile? When you make unsupported and libelous accusations, you expose yourself as a malicious agent.

          • James Paul

            LOL, yip everyone here is a pedophile because we disagree with you, go away already. You are done, no one believes you. I will call Obama and tell him you lost your audience and to cut off your paychecks…lol!!!

          • Debbie O’Grady

            you shills don’t want evidence so why do you keep demanding it? If we gave you MORE evidence you would only provide a fake link to a fake “scientific paper” that has no relevance to anything Factual

          • dale ruff

            Debbie, how do we know you are not a paid shill of the fossil fuel industry? The answer to where is the evidence and what is the source is evidence and source, not a lame excuse that I would refute it with a peer-reviewed research, which you, in your anti-science, anti-intellectual arrogance, call fake.

            Where is the evidence? Good evidence cannot refuted by fake science. is it possible you have only fake evidence and are hiding behind the claim that atmospheric science is a conspiracy to dupe people?

          • Debbie O’Grady

            Because I am fighting for truth dale, its not hard to work out mate, but you refuse to listen to fact, not much I can do about that fella

          • times2come

            Not only are the shills paid but so are “their” scientists w/data sheets!!!

          • James Paul

            Chemtrails don’t cool the planet. They act like a greenhouse gas and trap planetary surface heat, they actually cause global warming and they do so more than CO2 does.

          • dale ruff

            Contrails from 3.5 million flights a year spread out as cirrus clouds and help warm the atmosphere. No need for the assumption of chemtrails. Warming is caused by greenhouse gases and, to a slight degree, cirrus clouds which also trap heat. But contralis totally explains this phenomenon. Occam’s razor cuts away an unnecessary assumption.

          • James Paul

            Contrails are crystalized water vapor that sublimate to a gas in seconds after being produced. The extremely low humidity causes contrails to sublimate so quickly. Chemtrails can not sublimate, they are heavy metals and spread across the sky to produce a haze. Stop spreading disinformation and go away. You theories have been disputed many times you government hack.

          • dale ruff

            Persistent contrails spread out and form cirrus clouds. I live under the flght path to the San Jose Airport and I see this everyday. Atmospheric science is my authority.
            What is yours? If you study flight paths, which you can google, and correlated to the trails you see in the sky you will see an exact match.

          • James Paul

            We all live under flight paths Dale. Your San Jose flight path does not add any credibility to your argument. You have 20 different people here who are all providing you with information counter to your current belief. Do yourself a favor, switch teams. Do you not have any grand children? Why would you want to see them grow up in a world with toxic crap falling from the sky. Money isn’t everything. You willing to trade your integrity and honor for money? Have you already sold your soul to the devil?

          • dale ruff

            I offered that not as proof but as an example. Wherever I go,Iook up flight path maps and check whether the vapors correspond to ordinary commercial flights. They always do.

            I urge you to do your own research in this manner, which will, as you will learn, confirms the findings of atmospheric scientists who call what you call chemtrails “persistent contrails.”

            So you can listen to the experts in the field and do your own research. You don’t mrrf conspiracy theories(which poison the well of valid conspiracy allegations and distract from known lethal pollution) about alien influence or unnamed government agents to explain those white frozen vapors in the sky. I urge you to do the research I have conducted whenever I stay a while in a different place and draw conclusions from your own observations.

          • James Paul

            Dale, I don’t need commercial flight paths as proof, its much more simple than that. Maybe you are clouding your own thought process with all the flight path crap. When I stand in my backyard, look to the sky, see 2 planes flying at the same altitude, one leaving a chemtrail, the other leaving nothing, there is a conclusion to be drawn. If they are flying past each other with in a few miles, atmospheric conditions are the same for each plane, all the variables are taken out of the equation, the only conclusion is that one is spraying something and the other isn’t. Is that too much for your brain to comprehend?

          • Val Shadowhawk

            You’ve offered nothing. You are shill, not worth talking to. Go away!!!

          • dale ruff

            So that is your way of saying you don’t want to do your own research and compare observed condensation trails to flight paths?

            Your lies (I wish I were paid but sadly I do this as a duty to expose myths and lies) and attempts to exclude me from the discussion are violently anti-American. I offer you a way to fact check the misinformation you are repeating by doing your own research. You have offered nothing but insults and lies; I offer you a way to find out for yourself. Why don’t you prove me wrong by comparing observations by published flights paths. Nothing could be more persuasive or valuable.

            If you don’t like my questions and suggestions, why don’t you just ignore then (oh, you are)…then why don’t you just go away since you are not interested in finding out the truth, which I have offered you a way to check. Are you not interested in finding the truth from personal research? Are you afraid to have the claims you are repeating challenged with reasonable methods of verification? Are you afraid to find out you have been fooled?

          • Debbie O’Grady

            My sentiments exactly James I was about to say the same thing… he sold his soul to the devil for what ? is it really worth it ?

          • Val Shadowhawk

            Ho!!! Well said!!!

          • James Paul

            You see Dale, I have a degree in science. I work in a profession where I must measure the temperature and humidity of inspired gasses of people on life support everyday. I know how temperature and altitudes affect the humidity of gasses and how those gasses should react given varying data. I worked with a hyperbaric chamber for a number of years, the type used for divers with decompression sickness or nitrogen bubbles in their blood. I used it for research of several drug trials and wound treatment for diabetics. I know all the formulas and equations used to calculate density of gas, relative humidity and how much moisture a gas will hold at different altitudes/temperatures. What we see in our skies is not normal everyday contrails. Persistent contrails is a fake term used to promote the government shills lies. There is nothing you can tell me that will change my view of the chemtrail argument. We are being sprayed like cockroaches. Get over yourself and listen to what the rest of the world is telling you. I bet you would act differently if we were face to face. Its easy to lie to people when your face isn’t attached to the lie.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            The shilltard is doing what hes paid to do Dis credit chem trails with fake paid for “science facts” then demands us to provide evidence….

          • dale ruff

            Science facts are what actual scientists work with. Where do you get your information? Your ugly insults are not evidence but witness to a lack of evidence.
            Shame on you. I suspect you may be paid to spread the chemtrail lie to poison the well and distract people from the lethal know polluition which kills millions each year with the cost of its damage shifted to the public.. The IMF estimates the subsidies for fossill fuels at 6 trillion a year. Chemtrails, like the anti-global warming campaign, are used to distract the puiblic and keep them preoccupied as the fossil fuel industry pollutes their environment and picks their pockets.

            BTW, the actual emissions of flights do pollute; the EPA has asked for authority to regulate, as it does pollution from vehicles on the ground. But as long as you are preoccupoied with false conspiracies blaming the government, you will not focus on the real vfillains poisoning your health and chanrging you for it.

            IF you have evidence, present it. Your ugly insults only demonstate your lack of both character and intelligence.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            BTW I have no desire to read your fake rants shill go tell someone who cares

          • dale ruff

            Where do you get the evidence that chemtrails are real or that I am a paid shill. All rational people demand evidence. All rational people care.

            I do not rant and my questions are not fake. You are unable to answer these questions and so to cover up your inadequacy, you
            spread libelous lies about me. Questions are not lies: what is your evidence and where do you get it?

          • Debbie O’Grady

            i USE MY OWN EYES ! I call you a shill BECAUSE YOU ACT LIKE ONE All Rational people do demand evidence but anyone with a brain cell would accept the truth put before them yet it is only shills like you who REFUSE point blank to accept it. So whats the point?

          • times2come

            Heres a useful site with some info that might help you understand better about “Chemtrails” Dale; geoengineeringwatch dot com

          • dale ruff

            I do understand as I have studied the findings of actual atmospheric scientists as well as knowing that geoengineeringwatch is funded by the fossil fuel industry to spread misinformation.

            “Koch Industries and the Koch family spend millions of dollars on lobbyists to fight climate and energy legislation, millions more on politicians, and still more millions on organizations denying climate change. Through the Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation as well as Koch Industries and the other Koch family foundations, numerous and substantial donations go to organizations that deny, skepticize or belittle the significance of global warming. Compared to ExxonMobil, which has spent over $27.4 million on skeptic groups since 1998, foundations linked to Koch Industries have spent over $70 million in traceable contributions to the same network of organizations, with addition untraceable funding funnelled through organizations likeDonors Trust. Key Koch-backed organizations include the Americans for Prosperity Foundation, which was founded and remains chaired by David Koch, the Cato Institute, which Charles Koch co-founded and David Koch remains a board member after an attempted coup, theInstitute for Humane Studies, which is chaired by Charles Koch, and the Reason Foundation, of which David Koch is a trustee.” source: geoengineeringwatch.org

            Geoengineering.org and its sister radio station is well-produced propanda organ funded by Koch dark money.

            None of its articles is written by atmospheric scientists. Thekr leading author Dane Wigington is not an atmospheric scientist and he comes straight out of his employment by Bechtel Corporation, an engineering firm which is the 4th largest private company in the US. Bechtel has been a leader nuclear energy projects and oil pipelines. They were hired to extinguish the oil fires after the 1991 Gulf War.

            In 2003, Bechtel won a $680 million contract to begin rebuilding infrastructure in Iraq for U.S. Agency for International Development. The contract led to the company being accused of both non-competitive bidding and war profiteering. They have been heavily involved in the fossil fuel industry: “The Oil Gas & Chemical unit designs and builds liquefied natural gas (LNG), oil, pipeline, petrochemicals, and natural gas facilities…..Bechtel is overseeing a third of the world’s LNG liquefaction capacity under construction.”

            Bechtel is the project manager of a megapetrochemical complex in Qatar as well as one in Ohio.

            I point this out to highlight the background of geoengineeringwatch’s lead investigator which is not in atmospheric science,in which he has no credentials but as an employee of one of the worlds largest petrochemical construction and management firms. Bechtel is a defense contractor with strong political ties. Bechtel leaders have served at the highest positions in government, which helps explain how they have billions in government contracts.

            This shows the link between the anti-climate science and chemtrails propaganda machine, which is funded by fossil fuel oligarchs. In addition, Bechtel is a major contributor mostly to Republicans who lead the against legislation to curb pollution. The propaganda machine is funded by the fossil fuel industry, which uses politicians to block legislation to curb pollution, and propaganda to confuse the public, Geoengineeringwatch is a website funded by this machine and it has no atmospheric scientists, while its leading investigator comes straight out of a huge corporation which is intimately linked to fossil fuel production.

            I don’t take articles by anyone who is not an actual atmospheric or climate scientist seriously. Geoenginerringwatch has not one peer-reviewed article, and to experts in the field, it is a joke.

            I have over the years read many articles and links in geoengineering.watch. Not one article was ever written by a qualified atmospheric scientist.
            I don’t take it seriously. I take actual atmospheric science seriously and it explains with complete adequacy the nature of condensation trails, those emissions from all flghts in the usually frozen stratosphere, where all commercial flights cruise to conserve fuel. These frozen emissions are indeed polluted from unburned jet fuel and they do indeed influence the weather by spreading out as cirrus clouds, which have a warming effect.
            That is why the EPA is seeking approval to regulate jet fuel emissions, as it does on the ground. Persisent condensations trails, according to atmospheric scientists completely explains those white trails seen only up at the level of cirrus clouds, 30,000 ft and above.

            I urge you to take a class in atmospheric science and revolt against the profit-driven propaganda by non-experts you are urging me to believe. I have studied this issue for years ((I once believed in contrails)and I have concluded that I prefer real science to propaganda, promoted by cynical billionaires to confuse and distract the public, for the sake of protecing profits built on public subsidies of 6 trillion a year in costs shifted from the producers of dirty energy to the consumers and their governments (source:IMF)

            I do understand how contrails form and the effects they have. I urge you to do your own independent research and match flight path maps (google)with what you observe in the sky, as I have. And then, based not on spurious articles by non experts, but on your own observations, draw your own conclusions.. I also urge you to fact check the claims made on websites like geoengineeringwatch.com with reliable sources and actual scientists engaged in research in the field. How unreasonable is that?

          • dale ruff

            Well,so do greenhouse gases, and to lesser extent, ordinary contrails. Occam’s razor mandates that use the fewest assumptions to explain anything. Human greenhouse gas emissions completely explain global warming without any other assumptions.

          • James Paul

            Dale, CO2 production is good for the planet. Tree growth is limited by one factor, atmospheric CO2. Photosynthesis increases in the presence of increased CO2. Carbon is stored, oxygen is produced. Our forests regulate our atmospheric CO2. As CO2 increases it is absorbed by trees faster, as CO2 decreases tree growth falls off keeping CO2 at a steady state. We could not increase atmospheric CO2 if we tried. I have explained this simple process to you several times yet you still fail to acknowledge it. Do you need peer reviewed data on photosynthesis? Its kinda funny how the planet has developed fail safe mechanisms to protect life isn’t it?

          • Debbie O’Grady

            You got him by the short and curly ‘s there I think James…

          • James Paul

            LOL, I’m sure he will be back asking for peer reviewed evidence of this photosynthesis thing that I speak of…..

          • dale ruff

            Show me evidence of photosynthesis in the atmosphere above the level where plants grown and in 99% of the atmosphere. As the independent.co.uk reports:

            “Carbon dioxide is being accumulated in the atmosphere at the fastest rate since records began, as scientists warn that the oceans and forests may have absorbed so much CO2 that their crucial function as “carbon sinks” is now severely threatened.

            he jump in atmospheric CO2 is partly the result of rising carbon emissions as the world burns ever-more fossil fuels, according to the latest World Meteorological Organisation report, which finds the concentration of carbon increased by nearly three parts per million (ppm) to 396ppm last year.

            But, crucially, preliminary data in the report indicates that the jump could also be attributed to “reduced CO2 uptake by the Earth’s biosphere” – the first time the effectiveness of the world’s great carbon sinks has been scientifically called into question.

            Scientists said they were puzzled and extremely concerned by prospect of reduced absorption of the world’s oceans and plants, which they cannot explain and which threatens to accelerate the build-up of heat-trapping greenhouse gases in the atmosphere if the trend continues.”

          • dale ruff

            Fake science does not trump real science.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            Exactly Dale But it does in your world ?

          • dale ruff

            CO 2 in the atmosphere, where there are no plants, warms the earth, melts glaciers, ice caps and sheets, and causes extreme weather. Oxygen is also good for life but too much will kill you. Scientific research has found that with increasing CO2 and decreasing forests, the balance has been upset and the forests are unable to sequester the increased C02. In addition, there are no trees at 20,000 ft where greenhouse gases also trap heat.

        • William Burke

          You either have no idea what you’re talking about, or you are in sync with the disinformation agenda.

          We have taken some notice of you.

        • James Paul

          Dale knows nothing of what he speaks. As explained above Dale, the chemtrails may limit some light reaching earth it acts as a blanket(greenhouse gas) and prevents radiant surface heat from escaping in to space. Thus it causes global warming. I won’t ask you how stupid you are.

        • Alsetalokin

          Oh, Dale Ruff! We have an advocate that is PEERLESS.

          Consider: in Vietnam, they used Agent Orange — no, wait…. only CONTRAILS, right?

          Repent, else pray that you do not ever cross my path.

      • William Burke

        BINGO.

      • James Paul

        What if the geo-engineering such as chem trails is acting as a greenhouse gas and causing the global warming/climate change? It allows 70% of the light through and allows none of the heat to escape back in to space. I didn’t make this up by the way, I read that this is actually what is happening. The chemtrails have more of a greenhouse gas effect than carbon dioxide itself. Besides, humans can not increase carbon dioxide levels in the air. As co2 rises, trees grow faster maintaining a stead state in the atmosphere. Tree growth is limited by one thing, co2 present in the atmosphere, as it increases trees grow faster and co2 is trapped in the tree and returned back to the soil as coal when the tree dies.

        • Debbie O’Grady

          Well said. That is EXACTLY why we have “global warming” nothing to do with “man made” at all, Climate engineering is responsible just follow the money….

          • dale ruff

            Global warming is an empirical fact. Chemtrails contrails cover far less 1% of the atmosphere and cannot explain the rapid warming. Now you get to show your intellectual integrity by calling me more names:go!

          • James Paul

            1%? Chemtrails are visible over every continent on the planet. There are sites that keep track of this stuff on a international level. Do all of our continents only make up 1% of the earths surface….really? Do you want to come up with a number that sounds more reasonable? Oh wait I forgot you probably got the 1% number from a peer reviewed paper right?

          • Debbie O’Grady

            Global warming is a manufactured elite Lie to take whats left of our money, that my friend is Fact. What you are spewing is Lies.

          • dale ruff

            That’s what the Koch brothers, Exxon, and other fossil fuel billionaires spent hundreds of milliions to brainwash you with in order to protect the greatest profits in all human history. The IMF estimates the public subsides for the fossil fuel industry at 6 trillion a year, all coming out of our pockets. The program to reduce emissions and lessen the millions of deaths a year from pollution and catastrophic climate change by using carbon taxes to shift the cost of this damage back onto the producers is designed to protect your health the environment,and your pocket book..

            You can believe the climate scientists and the successful carbon taxes in the most successful economies of
            Germany, Ireland, Sweden, Finland, etc or you can believe the cynical propaganda lies of the Koch brothers.

            Exxon research 40 years ago confirmed that burning fossil fuels was warming the planet and posed a threat. They buried the research and then funded the lies that there was a scientific uncertainty about global warming.

            “Exxon Knew about Climate Change almost 40 years ago

            A new investigation shows the oil company understood the science before it became a public issue and spent millions to promote misinformation.”

            By Shannon Hall on October 26, 2015

            http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exxon-knew-about-climate-change-almost-40-years-ago/

            No one has more money than the Koch brothers (100 billion) or Exxon (make 30-40 billion a year in profits) to misinform the public…and you should redirect your anger from shitards like me to those who have been cynically lying to you to protect their billions in profits.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            Shill the only “Brainwashed” people I see here are you and your buddies, once again, your fake science will not wash with me pal

          • dale ruff

            Every lie you tell diminishes your humanity. I rely on peer-reviewed science. Anything else is fake science. STop lying, Debbie.

          • Cat411

            How’s your health these days, Dale? And your family.. how are they? Anyone with respiratory issues, cancer, or Alzheimers?

          • dale ruff

            Your transparently snide question can be answered:No. My family eats organic food (2 of us are vegans) and does not live near areas subject to pollution.

            “New global data suggests air pollution kills 10 million people per year.”

            arstechnica.com

            The most common source of pollution is coal and other fossil fuel combustion (ie 1 billion vehicles and 3.5 million flights per year,plus refinery pollution).

            Those who make billions from shifting the cost of killing millions and sickening hundreds of millions to the public are on record as funding anti-environmental propaganda campaigns, bribing politicians to block legislation to curb emissions, and funding anti-solar energy initiaives (as in Florida today). By blocking legislation, which would curb both emissions and their profits, they are able to continue to to shift the cost of their pollution, estimated by the IMF at 6 trillion per year, to the public, consumers, and the government.

            If my health were bad, would that make you happy? Would it confirm your cherished illusions? Would it prove ordinary pollution were not the cause?

            You are so obvious.

          • Cat411

            No, Dale, I don’t wish for your health to be bad. And I wasn’t being snide. I wanted you to stop and think about it. I don’t deny that pollution and fossil fuel emissions are causing many of our health and climate problems. But we are also being globally inundated by chemicals raining down on us. Barium, strontium, aluminum, to name a few. They don’t just fall out of the sky! We’re being sprayed with these dangerous chemicals from airplanes. They’re in lakes and streams, on the ground you plant your veggies in, in the oceans, everywhere!! They’re not only killing the planet, they want to kill us humans, too!!! That’s the plan. Look up Agenda 21. You can call me a quack, whatever, I don’t care, but I care about life on earth, my life, my family’s life.. ALL LIFE! If WE don’t stand up to the people perpetrating these crimes against humanity, who will? We need to demand they stop spraying before it gets worse!!

          • dale ruff

            Why did you ask about my health?

            ” We’re being sprayed with these dangerous chemicals from airplanes.”

            That’s your claim, which you are repeating from online websites which have no atmospheric scientists on board and are funded by the fossil fuel industry. There is no evidence, and so your claims must be dismissed.

            Agenda 21, which I am well aware of, is a voluntary, non-binding set of proposals to protect the environment, reduce poverty, allow rights for women and children, and provide access to birth control to poor people.

            The crimes against humanity are being perpetrated by the very people who are funding these propaganda campaigns to poison the well of legitmiate conspiracy allegations and to confuse and distract the public from the evil they do in the name of private profits.

            When you have peer-reviewed evidence I will take you seriously. But the fact is you have none. You are repeating fossil fuel propaganda, designed to create support for blocking the government from curbing polluition, to protect the fortunes of fossil fuel billionaires.

            You are not a quack; you are a victim of propaganda.

          • Cat411

            That’s NOT what Agenda 21 is really about, Dale. They prettied up the official definition so the people of the world won’t revolt.

          • dale ruff

            I have read Agenda 21 and studied its adoption. I have correctly stated what it is about. If you have evidence that its actual proposals have a sinister meaning, please present it. Put up or shut up.

            Agenda 21 misinformation is promoted by the same dirty energy producers who wish to create opposition to laws to protect the environment and curb pollution. You are being suckered. If you have evidence, why withhold it. Assertions made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

            Agenda 21 is voluntary and non-binding; its primary goal is to get nations and communities to adopt sustainable measures, to promote the rights of women and children, and to reduce pollution and poverty. If you have evidence to the contrary, it’s time to bring it forth.

          • Cat411

            Here’s a link to explain the true purpose of Agenda 21. https :// americanpolicy .org/ agenda21/

            Here’s an exerpt from that report: The last words “according to its authors, GLOBAL POPULATION CONTROL AND REDUCTION”

            What is Sustainable Development?

            According to its authors, the objective of sustainable development is
            to integrate economic, social and environmental policies in order to
            achieve reduced consumption, social equity, and the preservation and
            restoration of biodiversity. Sustainablists insist that every societal
            decision be based on environmental impact, focusing on three components;
            global land use, global education, and global population control and
            reduction.

          • dale ruff

            Agenda 21 advocates the following measure to reduce population growth in the poorest regions like
            Central Africa where the birth rate is nearly 3 times higher than in prosperous areas like the US, Japan, and Europe:
            1. emancipation of women
            2. access to birth control and healthcare
            3. reducing poverty.
            4. reducing mortality rate, which is much higher in poor nations, 2-3 times as high.

            Do you disagree with any of these methods of the goals?

            In these poorest nations, millions of children die at an early age and starve to death. Do you oppose measures to eliminate this situation?

            Historically, as populations achieve financial stability as in the high income nations, the people voluntarily reduce birth rates to replacement levels or below.

            By reducing poverty and providing healthcare and birth control, the desperately poor will achieve food and economic security and will, as all other secure nations do, reduce its birth rate voluntarily.

            I totally support this goal and these measures. Which do you oppose?

          • Cat411

            You didn’t read that information, or you just skimmed over it. You’re hopeless, Dale. You ARE a f**king shill!

          • dale ruff

            Your first two links were pretty bogus:

            The first stated “1. There is readily available photographic evidence which shows that there was once an advanced civilisation on Mars which built large structures and there is some form of life there now.

            2. Advanced technology which could probably be used to circumvent most of our current problems has been developed successfully in Black Projects. This includes anti-gravity and free energy technology.

            3. Extraterrestrial beings have been interacting with the human race for 1000s of years and do so on a daily basis, leaving various kinds of evidence.”

            The second was of a research paper which proved that fly ash is in the environment, something no one disputes, but it was retracted because it made claims which didn’t meet scientific stndards.

            So why should I look at an anti-Agenda 21 source, when I have been familiar with Agenda 21 for over a decade and the adoption by states and nations and its methods and goals proposed?

            Evidence of extra-terrestrials, retracted fake science…………that’s enough for me to realize you are part of a tiny minority with lunatic views.

            I know what Agenda 21 is about, protecting the environment, reducing poverty creating healthcare and rights for women and children. You didn’t respond to my detailed last post asking if you disagreed with such methods and goals but climbed back into the gutter with obscene lies about my motives. That is your admission of failure to conduct rational discourse based on evidence.

            You are a sad person.

          • Cat411

            WTH??? I did NOT post ANYTHING about aliens or extraterrestials! You’re delusional, Dale.

          • Cat411

            I did NOT post a link to ANYTHING about Martians and extraterrestrials! You either entered the link incorrectly or you’re delusional.

          • Cat411

            https :// americanpolicy. org/ agenda21/

          • Debbie O’Grady

            and you are a shill I expect nothing less from you.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            Well said Cat I agree 100%

          • Cat411

            Thanks, Debbie. But I feel like I’m arguing with a sign post. No matter what I say (or what anyone says) he’s not going to change his mind. He’s hopeless.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            I know right? but that’s what hes paid to do which is why I don’t indulge them usually unless I see them ganging up on people, but you are quite right, he’s been had by his Gov. and he doesn’t even know it yet….

          • Debbie O’Grady

            you rely on a handbook of links to fake scientific papers… it is You who needs to stop lying.

          • dale ruff

            You are still lying, Debbie. I have good research and critical thinking skills, developed through a world class education. I do not lie; I report on evidence, peer-reviewed research, and credible sources. I have no handbook; and any links I give are not to fake research. Time to stop lying. Even you know you are.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            “I have good research and critical thinking skills, developed through a world class education. I do not lie;” hmm really shill ? I’ll just leave that one out there…

          • dale ruff

            Adding lies to lies does not equal the truith, Debbie. You will leave that one out there because you cant refute it except by repeating your lie that I am paid to tell the truth. I wish I were. You will pay for each lie you repeat. That’s the law of karma. You cannot cut me down because I stand with the facts and refuse to liek since I do not need to. If you wish to check my educational background you can check my linked in profile.

            Where were you educated? Where is your evidence that I am a shill. Do you know that libel is a crime?

          • Debbie O’Grady

            You see all that BS you keep spouting, you are forgetting one thing, which beats your fake “scientific” evidence We OPEN our eyes WE SEE FOR OURSELVES !!!! You CANNOT and WILL NOT tell me that chemtrails are a figment of my imagination – If you are not a shill, then you seriously need to go back to school because your arguments are seriously flawed and dis-proven

          • dale ruff

            We all see the condensation trails of the 3.5 million flights per year which happen when water vapor (laden with polluting jet fuel residues) is frozen in the stratosphere. Atmospheric scientists call these persistent contrails. You see these contrails and INTERPRET them as chemtrails.

            I have already completed my education at the top public and private universities in the world. Where did you go to school, Debbie?

            publicpolicypolling.com, a firm with a strong reputation for accuracy, reports:

            ” 4% of voters say they believe “lizard people” control our societies by gaining political power

            – 5% believe exhaust seen in the sky behind airplanes is actually chemicals sprayed by the government for sinister reasons.

            You are in that 5% group; I am in the 95% group that accepts the findings of actual atmospheric science, which you call fake science but without any evidence of why the world’s atmospheric scientists would all be lying and promoting fake science.

            Honestly, my dear, you are beneath contempt. You have called me a shitard, libeled me with being a shill, and claimed that your interpretation of what you see refutes the findings of the world’s atmospheric scientists. I will leave you with an experiment and then I will end our “dialogue.”

            Google the flight path maps for your area. Then observe the condensation trails that you observe and see whether they match the flight paths. This will allow you to conduct your own research, as I have. I have found in both Northern California and Arizona an exact match.

            I will not open your posts, as I have no more time to waste with you. I urge you to do the research I recommend and draw your own conclusions. I have taken all your lies and insults as a badge of honor for providing evidence and questions you cannot address except with lies and obscenities.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            Do you know that Legal proceedings are about to commence on those
            responsible for poisoning our skies ? so if anyone is talking Libel
            shill, that’s us pal not you. I find it Strange somewhat how as soon as anyone provides evidence you choose to ignore ?

          • Cat411

            I’d give you 10 up-votes if I could, Debbie!

          • Debbie O’Grady

            bless you Cat 🙂

          • Debbie O’Grady

            Do you know that Legal proceedings are about to commence on those responsible for poisoning our skies ? so if anyone is talking Libel shill, that’s us pal not you.

          • James Paul

            🙂

      • dale ruff

        What if what you are seeing are ordinary persistent polluting contrails which slightly warm the atmosphere from 3.5 million flights a year? What if atmospheric science perfectly explains what you are intepreting as chemtrails?

        You can do your own test. Look up flight path maps for your area and then correlated with trails you see in the sky. They will perfectly match, but don’t take my word for it, do your own research.

        I get condemned as a paid shill by the chemtrail cult but when tell them they can confirm the total correlation on ordinary published flight paths with frozen vapor trails, they never do the research but curse me. I will stick with the empirical evidence. I urge you, if you have an open mind, to do the research I have done for your own area.

    • William Burke

      Chemtrail terraforming has already reduced sunlight reaching Earth’s surface by up to 30% in some places. This is the bête noir of your solar agenda. The planet appears to be undergoing terraforming for someone or something that doesn’t exist on Earth. To the best of our knowledge.

      So much for solar. The trump card on that has already been paid, and it never was going to be enough. Wind energy is only feasible in a relatively few places on the planet.

      I am in sympathy with your sentiments, but they have been checkmated by whoever is trying to alter the climate of the planet.

      You will notice I never said the phrase “alien civilization”, but the behavior of our leaders is only explicable if they are agents of something alien to the planet.

      In a way, it doesn’t matter if there is an alien invasion or not. The agenda being carried out is AS IF there were an alien agenda at work somehow.

      • Steadcore

        It looks like a war against everything that lives and breathes. What kind of creepy things could survive on a dead planet? They definitely would be alien to this fantastic creation. This madness has to stop before there is no flesh alive.

        • William Burke

          Well, it’s just a question, not an answer. We’re talking about a vastly changed planet, hostile to the present life forms here. But what if there were an alien life form that required different conditions, hostile to us, but acceptable to them?

          It’s just a question. It’s not really a theory. But such drastic changes are going on that someone has to raise these questions, in order to make way for higher awareness.

          • James Paul

            So, to your alien theory, I think this universe is way too big for some tiny little planet like the Earth to be the only life source. I saw something in the sky one day about 35 years ago that couldn’t be explained by technologies then or now. The entire group of people I was with saw a object flying around a 747 taking off from a nearby airport. It was flying from front to back of this aircraft as the plane was climbing in altitude. Then the object stopped and hovered in the air as the plane flew away. It hovered for a minute or two, then it shot out of view, over the horizon in a split second. It was gone.
            There have been aliens visiting this planet for thousands of years. I think there may be some collusion between world governments and these alien races. If you look at some of the world leaders and rich people around the world it seems like they never die. They live forever, look at Soros, Henry Kissinger, some of the Rothchild, the Queen of England. They all appear to be immortal.
            Have you heard of the Georgia Guidestones? Someone spent a lot of money and went to a lot of work to convey a message that the world population needs to be reduced to 500 million so we do not use up all of the planets resources too quickly. That means 4.5 billion people needs to be eliminated. Disease, starvation and control can all be accomplished by this chemtrail program. Let me know hat you think. I can elaborate more if need be.

          • William Burke

            It’s not my “alien theory”. I’m merely observing a spectrum of things that defy ordinary explanation. I don’t have one shred of evidence of alien visitation, just some videos, that make me suspect something is going on that’s beyond ordinary understanding.

          • fred

            More then 5 billion as the world pop is estimated at 7.3 billion… not that it really matters when you are talking about murdering that many people. Sad part is that if we actually cared about this planet more then the almighty dollar we could feed, cloth and provide clean power to everyone. But this will never ever happen as the power hungry would rather talk about population control then take a hit to their pocket book.
            Definitely time for a reset and a new way of looking at our place in this huge system and to do that we have to get rid of the system that has ruled over us for thousands of years.

          • john

            We need higher awareness from lib-tards like you…

          • Debbie O’Grady

            and less BS from shilltards like you….

          • Steadcore

            Are there aliens that could exist in that kind of environment? We certainly
            have heard enough about them, or are these entities insane enough to destroy there own future.without a planet to survive on? Peace

      • dale ruff

        You are begging the question, assuming what requiires proof. Can you find an atmospheric scientist who accepts chemtrails? Contrails do indeed reduce sunlight, but they do not cool the atmosphere but warm it has they trap more energy than they let in.

        Solar energy is the fastest growing industry in the US. Wind energy is plauiable in many regions, from the coastal areas (where the most people live) to the mountains to the Saudi Arabia of wind, the MIdwest. You make assertions with no sources, no evidence, which means they are not facts but speculations.

        Germany, a nation half the sunshine of the American South and West has 30% wind/solar and on some days up to 80%.

        Your implication that our leaders are agents of aliens removes all doubt that you spend too much time watching lunatic youtube videos and have never had even one class in climate science and can provide not one peer-reviewed study which shows that chemtrails have reduced sunlight by up to 30% in some places.

        You are batshit crazy.

        • William Burke

          You are an agent of falsehood. You think you’ll have special privileges because of all the high crotches you’ve sniffed.

          You’re a goddamned fool.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            Well said

          • dale ruff

            Obscene insults are the weapons of the impotent who have no rational refutation of facts and evidence.. The personal insult is the ultimate logical fallacy. This proves you are batshit crazy. I will continue to provide evidence and facts. You can continue to ignore them and believe your aliens are in charge lunacy and back it up with lies and insults.

        • Debbie O’Grady

          And you are a shill that parks himself on every page relating to Truth spreading your dis info lies.

          • dale ruff

            If you have the Truth, where is the evidence? Put up or shut up.

          • Cat411

            Peer-Reviewed, Court-Admissible, Scientific Research Paper Published Exposing Geoengineering

            http :// stateofthenation2012 .com /?p=20032 (delete the spaces)

            Want more evidence, Dale? Well, here ya go…

            http ://stateofthenation2012 .com/ ?p=5778

          • Debbie O’Grady

            We keep giving you evidence but you still demand more…

          • dale ruff

            I have been given two links: one to youtube videos. Scientific research is not presented as videos but as peer-reviewed articles in scientific journals. The other was a research project which showed that coal fly ash is in the troposphere, something no one who has ever looked at a coal smokestack has ever doubted. The research paper then speculated the fly ash was the result of being sprayed from tankers with zero evidence and ignoring the fact that the EPA has had data on tons and tons of fly ash in the atmosphere for many decades. The paper has been retracted for “having problems.”

            I have been given no evidence: videos are not evidence; retracted research papers which prove what no one disputes are not evidence.

            Claiming you have evidence is not evidence; if a liar claims he is telling the truth, does that make it the truth.

            When you have peer-reviewed research, get back to me.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            We keep giving you evidence but you still demand more…

        • thelargekahoona

          Prove it’s NOT a possibility. Solar and wind are poor sources of renewables, poor efficiency. The real technology for independence is suppressed. Magnetic power structures and apparatus would be more efficient and would never stop producing power.

          • dale ruff

            Proving a negative is nearly impossible. Can you prove you are not a pedophile?

            Conspiracy theories have the burden of proof since they challenge the consensus of the scientific community and make a number of assumptions not necessary to explain the condensation trails observed.

            If there is “real technology” for independence, wealthy innovators like Elon Musk would develop it. “Elon Musk announces that all Tesla patents will be available for anyone to use, in good faith.”

            Unless you have evidence for your claims they have no credibiliy. And I challenge you to prove you are not a child molester.

          • dale ruff

            Solar and wind are highly successful and in many regions, such as Africa,
            Australia, and the Western US already at parity with dirty energy and in some cases, cheapers. Germany, a nation with only half the sunny days of the West,Mideast, etc. has 30% r

            Renewable with some days up to 80%. Molten salt solar plants are now able to produce energy 24/7 and new battery technology is able to store solar and wind energy for use 24/7.

            The price of solar has decreased by 90% since 2000 and there are twice as many solar workers in the US as coal.

            Here are some facts:

            “The U.S. solar industry continued on its record-breaking trajectory in Q2 2015 with 1,393 megawatts (MW) of installed solar capacity, making this the largest Q2 in history. As has been the case over the last 18 months, the residential and utility-scale markets led the way, installed 463 and 729 MW, respectively.

            Through the first half of the year, the solar industry has supplied 40% of all new 2015 elecric generating capacity – more than any other energy technology. With more than 5,000 MW of installed solar capacity projected over the second half of 2015, the U.S. solar industry is expected to reach nearly 8,000 MW for the year, and 28,000 MW in total.

            Other key takeaways:

            There are now over 22,700 MW of cumulative solar electric capacity operating in the U.S., enough to power more than 4.6 million average American homes.

            With over 135,000 installations in the first half of 2015, nearly 784,000 U.S. homes and businesses have now gone solar and a new solar project was installed every 2 minutes.

            Growth in Q2 was led by the utility-sc

            ale sector, which posted its largest quarter of the year at 729 MW, and the residential sector, which grew 70% over last year to install 473 MW and will likely surpass its 2014 total in Q3.

            Since the implementation of the ITC in 2006, the cost to install solar has dropped by more than 73%.

            While residential costs have dropped by 45% since 2010, utility-scale costs have dropped more significantly, with recent contracts at prices below $0.05/kWh.”

            Other nations are heavily investing in solar, including China, which invests more than the USA , and
            Saudi Arabia, which is investing heavily in solar (http://cleantechnica.com/2015/06/05/saudi-arabia-may-become-the-saudi-arabia-of-solar/).

            In many states, you can have solar installed for zero down and reduce your electricity bill by 2/3 and power your home and electric car. If you buy solar ouitright, it will pay for itself in 5–7 yrs and give you 20 more years of clean, free energy. Free energy? That is why the fossil fuel industry and the Koch brothers are trying to destroy solar and spreading the lies that you have swallowed.

    • James Paul

      When Dale tries to refute chemtrails and promotes wind power in the same sentence, red flags. Like I stated below, I believe the current chemtrail program is being used to create many of the weather disruptions we see today. By making the atmosphere conductive they can use the HARRP technology to modify weather patterns. They can create droughts by creating low pressure systems above or below a area and steer rain producing systems away from a certain area, we see this in California where most of our food is grown btw. They can intensify storm systems by placing low pressure systems over naturally occurring severe storms systems. These intense storm systems are them blamed on global warming from CO2 production. Then Obama pushes international climate legislation that taxes industries out of business here in the United States and collects a bunch of revenue for international organization like the IMF and World Bank who btw pursue a One World Government agenda. It may seem far fetched but all the pieces fit.

      • William Burke

        I think the chemtrailing is to create a cold, dry planet. Is there some race that has bargained for such an arrangement?

        • James Paul

          If you have been following the United States foreign relation agenda you will notice we have been attacking and overthrowing leaders who fail to allow the international banking system within its borders. We been propping up those who comply. The elite want all banking systems under their power so they can destroy their currencies like they are doing today here in the US. This global carbon tax scheme is nothing but wealth redistribution, they are weakening the power of the citizens and empowering those who want to control us.

          • Cat411

            We need to find that ‘nest of rats’ and exterminate them.

        • James Paul

          a cold dry planet wouldn’t be suitable for growing enough food to feed 5 billion people, I guess someone needs to be culled.

          • William Burke

            Unless it’s only being made cold and dry until they stop doing something. After most of us are dead – that IS the aim, isn’t it?

          • James Paul

            I don’t know if they can make us cooler or drier. They can direct where the rain will fall. If it falls in a area where it can’t be utilized then that would give the appearance that the planet is drying up. But, yes I am convinced that the ultimate goal of government is to cull the human race. They can’t do that to a armed nation like the U.S.. Obama is working on that though.

        • dale ruff

          Well then it’s failing since the earth is warming. Do you think the earth is cooling. Jeeze!!!!!!

          • William Burke

            I have nothing to say that your closed mind could comprehend. I recall summers in the late 60s and early 70s that were almost unbearable hot, even in the middle of the night.

            It’s not like that anymore. I’m nearly 68, and very sensitive to temperature changes. And it’s mid-January in Virginia, and there’s no snow or ice to be seen.

          • dale ruff

            My mind is open to evidence. Your memory of hot nights 40 years ago is not evidence. And then you compare summer and winter. Oh dear….we are talking about global climate, William, and the empirical evidence of warming, melting ice caps, melting glaciers, rising sea levels, record heat waves on all continents, etc. not 40 yr old memories that summer was hot. At any given time, 2/3 of the earth is warming and 1/3 is cooler. Do the math.

          • James Paul

            Ya William, you must have been in a bubble of warming.

          • Cat411

            Dale, look back at world climate history. We’ve had climate change throughout the centuries. Not that I disagree with you that industrial pollution and fossil fuel emissions, etc., are causing a lot of our problems, mainly health problems, but I don’t trust the scientists and governments who believe that natural fluctuations in the earth’s temperature are not happening.. And then there’s the chemtrail problem, but you don’t understand that, or just refuse to see what you can see with your own eyes. Oh and Fukushima.. that is an atrocity on a global scale!

          • Cat411

            I’m 62 and I recall those summers too. What I also recall is that our home didn’t have central air-conditioning. We only a few window units and some days I couldn’t do anything but sit in front of them with a both of ice cubes. I lived in the country though, so I don’t know when other homes got central A/C. Our schools didn’t have it, just fans, and we were miserable in Sept, some Octobers, and May.

          • James Paul

            chemtrails = greenhouse gas = warming = international climate agenda = carbon tax scheme

      • James Paul

        If you were wondering, the ingredients in the chemtrail slurry is aluminum, barium and strontium, which are all heavy metals and cause Alzheimer, cancer and weaken the immune system respectively. Aluminum in the soil also has a effect on food production in the farming industry. Monsanto has produced a line of seeds that are aluminum resistant, how convenient. But, what I was getting to is that these HARRP instillations can create low pressure systems by pushing upper levels of the atmosphere in to space, creating a void underneath that causes surrounding air columns to swoop in and fill the void. This is how frozen birds sometimes fall out of the sky. They get caught in these updrafts that are created and freeze when sucked in to upper atmosphere.

        • dale ruff

          Whats your source? I mean peer-reviewed studies. Anyone can repeat the propaganda from people with no experience in atmospheric science.
          Without peer-reviewed research, its just bullshit.

          • James Paul

            Sorry Dale, you peer reviewed garbage is nothing but garbage. We all know that this peer reviewed system is nothing more than a way to eliminate data that doesn’t fit the government official version. You have been officially shut down. Stop trying, your days of misinformation are over.

          • James Paul

            Why do I need government scientists to review something when I have no faith that a government scientists is going to tell us the truth in the first place? Shut up and move along.

          • dale ruff

            Most scientists are not “government scientists”.. There are ten thousand climate scientists in 180 nations, a minority working for 180 governments, most academics with good salaries in public and private universities, and many working for corporations.

            As for telling me to shut up, I will with all due respect, tell you that I have no intention to tolerate your fallacies and generalizations. I will say to you, if you have evidence that 97% of climate scientists are sold out government employees, present your evidence: Put up or shut up.

          • James Paul

            Wrong, all scientists are bought out by big government to produce facts and/or statistics that shore up the governments official version. If they refuse their reputation is ruined and career is lost. I have read many stories that prove this theory. No I will not provide sources, look it up yourself.

          • Cat411

            Not ‘all’ scientists, but a great majority. The ones who try to tell the truth are silenced.

          • James Paul

            True, I was getting carried away.

          • Cat411

            Not a problem. 🙂

          • jim

            dale ruff – hey dale, I am in Canada between Buffalo and Detroit. some days I observe partially cloaked white tanker aircraft spraying in checker board patterns. after they pass, the ChemTrails fall down in a curtain formation then as they disperse, the wind moves the curtains sideways. our bright cloudless sunny clear sky turns a wispy darker blanket that blocks out our sun. some commercial aircraft were equipped for spraying but that may have been slowed some. the larger passenger aircraft do leave a short white contrail about one half a meter behind which quickly fades away. this, compared to the 35 kilometer ChemTrails that saturate our atmosphere.
            there must be hundreds of tanker aircraft spraying with ground transport tankers for refueling plus a huge payroll for pilots and maintenance staff.
            your media may not be able to report on this without the risk of being punnished. this somewhat secret spraying seems to be a world wide effort being controlled by folks ‘above and not answerable to your politicians’.
            your internet search will probably show pictures of the main location of the tanker fleet’s airbase in your country and perhaps a speech by an American government spokeswoman explaining how this spraying has been going on for some more than 20 years now.
            I have a very 2 intellectual friends [retired electrical engineer and civil engineer] who insist on peer reviews about most things, even when I have proved a few of these peer reviews have been based on lies. they do not seem to be able to look at things objectively. one insists on researching every negative thing about the author or source, rather than considering the truth being presented.
            be well my friend – jim

          • dale ruff

            Lets see the pictures of the spraying.. If you think you are seeing chemtrails, surely you are taking pictures to show the world. What does partially cloaked mean?

            Commercial aircraft fill with passengers to the last perimissable pound so it is unlikey they would add more weight with spray and then corrode the plane spraying.

            It sounds like you have already decided what you are seeing are chemtrails tho I know of now atmospheric scientists who accept this conccept.

            Commericial aircraft in freezing termpartues will leave long contrails which will then spread sidewasys as cirrus clouds dimming the sun and slightly warming the atmosphere.

            I fail to see how you can observe a contrail a foot long at 35,000 ft.
            I assure you that with all the chemtrail media there is no lack of media willing to report what you are describing, with pictures. Who do you assume will punish the media…..since it is able to say Obama is a Muslim, is trying to destroy the country, is gay, etc etc?

            Hundreds of tankers spraying —-where are the pictures?

            How are you, with no background in a field able to “disprove” peer reviewed studies as being not mistaken but based on lies. Even if you could, how do you know they are lies rather than miistakes?

            Unless you can provide evidence your claims have no credibility.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            more evidence? like I said shilltard it wouldn’t matter how much evidence was put right before your blinded eyes YOU WILL STILL DEMAND MORE because your job is making sure the Truth stays hidden so give it up shill you wont win.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            97% of those so called climate scientist took thousands of dollars in bribes to say exactly what you are preaching shill

          • dale ruff

            You are demonstrating pure anti-science anti-intellecualism. Real scientist do not take anything that is not peer-reviewed seriously. You call the apex of scientific research garbage. Got it. You hate knowledge; you prefer propaganda and myth.

            Peer-reviewed about which you clearly know nothing has zero to do with” the government official version.” It has to do with a discipline which works because it has no central committee or appointed authority but works through letting peers judge the work of peers.

            Your defense of ignorance is tragic.

          • James Paul

            I say the apex of scientific research has been hijacked by a out of control government with a agenda that differs from the of the American people.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            not just the American people but Globally.

          • James Paul

            Your defense of a system of peer reviewed crap that limits and excludes reputable scientists is flawed. What better way of weeding out theories that differ from big government than some peer reviewed garbage system. If this is the system that got us where we are today, it needs to be thrown out and/or revised. Our government has unlimited money and influence and controls all of the science coming out today. I do not trust this government, Obama or you. Shove your crap where the sun don’t shine.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            Well said James.

          • James Paul

            TY:’)

          • Debbie O’Grady

            most welcome 🙂

          • William Burke

            LOOK IT UP, you sluggard. None of us is your paid research assistant.

          • john

            Don’t hate on other’s because your a sad and miserable lib tard…You sound like you been drinking o.frauds kool-Aid way to long ..:-)

          • William Burke

            “Don’t hate on”? What are you, 14?

          • john

            Yep,,,don’t be a hater tator…. ; )

          • Cat411

            I thought he was 12.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            I think you give him too much credit, even 12 and 14 year old’s know more about life than this schmuck

          • Cat411

            True.

          • john

            And remember they ran their mouth on me first ..You jump in someone else’s battle cafeteria lady..

          • Debbie O’Grady

            I doubt that very much….I jump into someone Else’s battle when you shills decide to attack…. 😉 Every time shilltard.

          • James Paul

            LOL, looking back at the posts I think John accidently made a comment to you that was meant for Dale and things just got more confused after that. I think we are all on the same page and in agreement that Dale is a government hack.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            I think John is another shill James, same page as Dale….

          • James Paul

            oh ok, I wasn’t paying close attention. I thought everyone was on one side and Dale was on the other. I was trying to get Dale to admit defeat, tuck his tail between his legs and scamper away. Man, I have never seen a government shill with such tenacity. I think he actually believes what he is saying.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            James you have no idea, these shills come in great disguise’s they really are scum of the earth, its their job and they get paid for being vile and manipulative, recently I was mobbed by several on “Global skywatch” which pretends to be about chemtrails but is actually ran by shills who mob and discredit anyone who believes in chemtrails and one of them friend requested me, gullible me thought he was a genuine truth seeker so I let him him… all he wanted to know was if there were any more chemtrail sites! I said, yes, so when he asked where they were, I said – in time when you prove to me you are not a shill… but when I questioned the request, as I do now thanks to the shills, I didn’t trust his answers, and pretty soon within minutes he had screen shotted my whole fb page all over Global skywatch !! I had at least 20/25 of them ganging up on me calling me chemtard scum go kill myself etc etc all because I believed in chemtrails… I’m not sure if this one actually believes what hes saying? I think he might…. in which case he has been fooled along with the rest of us.

          • James Paul

            No kidding, I had no idea. I may have to make up a new email and pay this Global skywatch a visit, I bet Dale is the ring leader…lol

          • Debbie O’Grady

            I bet he is lol or if not that one another just like it… Please do, I would love to be a fly on the wall…

          • Cat411

            No, James. Can’t be. I think the government requires their hacks to have higher than a 6th grade education.

          • Cat411

            I was referring to our resident troll, not Dale. After all, Dale is an educated scientist and we hold them in such high esteem, don’t we?

          • Cat411

            I think you’re confusing William Burke with someone else.

          • john

            I’m,not confusing nothing..He emailed me out of the clear blue and got smart with me…I think your older age made you senile..And I think your Lib-tard a$$ needs to mind your own biz…Titty tat gurl…

          • Debbie O’Grady

            Your UGLY mouth will come back and bite you shilltard

          • john

            Ha,,,They should round up you and all the rest of the little lib- tards and when your planet x comes by they can stick you all on it…ha ha ha ha…

          • Debbie O’Grady

            ha ha ha ? you shills all like to say “ha ha ha” ? whilst you spout your shilltard handbook of lies You sound like a pathetic moron wanting some REAL truth BUT you are human and

          • john

            Face it if your taking up for cat411 and William Burke your a treasonous traitor too …peek a boo : )

          • Debbie O’Grady

            I don’t understand what “taking up for cat411 and William Burke” means ? If you mean do I stand beside them as fellow truth seekers then Yes John you are right.I do. and that makes me a treasonous traitor ?

          • john

            Fat olga ,.you can say what ever trash you want in your la la land world ..But watch that mouth when you speak children ..I have kids and raise by myself..And whats your name oh Debbie O’grady … ; )

          • Debbie O’Grady

            you are an immature little boy, go away the adults are talking

          • john

            Remember I own thiz site ol’dirty…

          • john

            watch on youtube,,psychopathic rydas song is who I be,,watch video…That’s who I am… 😉 whiteboys , pick which one I am…

          • Cat411

            I couldn’t listen to more than a couple of minutes. Every other word was MF. Disgusting.

          • john

            Your disgusting your the one that smells like cat pee and is a rusted up robot…im better in the sack and more attractive and with your age brought on Alzheimer’s…I bet you forgot what that is…ha ha

          • Cat411

            Who cares what you think? I have looked thru your comments and they’re all stupid and juvenille. You don’t discuss any of the topics in an intelligent way, you just bash people right and left, or you’re trying to get a laugh from other trolls. You know, if you showed a little more class, you might be taken seriously someday.

          • john

            STFU,, how you know wtf I’ve done with your 175 posts..I’ve been on here way longer than you and I see everyone on my side but your funk mouth a$$ and the other 2 losers..It’s like this you butt your wart nose where it don’t belong stay out others conversations ..And when someone gets smart with me I’m fukn with them back..You sub-human troll..Talk to someone else that can stand ya..

          • Cat411

            You’re a real hot-head, aren’t you? I wouldn’t trust you with a gun on the front lines of anything. Your language shows real class… NOT. I don’t care how long you’ve been on here or how many posts you’ve written. Quality over quantity. Besides, I don’t comment to get people to respond, I post my thoughts on the topic being discussed.

          • john

            I have class not like you trying to survive in your hoarded bathroom while your bed ridden on the sh!tter..Your throat hangs 5 feet and they got to use a electronic jack to move it up and down so you can talk..Cause your vulgar … I signed you up for the Fattie Mae foundation…

          • Cat411

            What’s a hoarded bathroom? I’ve never heard of anyone hoarding bathrooms before.

            Do you kiss your kids with that trash mouth?

          • john

            Hit someone else up ..Im done speaking to dummies that don’t have a life but on here..adios

          • john

            I heard planet x rotates around your waste every 3336 years it’s coming around here soon thats how the earth will end thats why our soon coming king jesus is coming back..I bet you watch the clock all day and count down for your next meal..During that time you also stare out your window in the bathroom and stare at the clouds and matrix shapes of chicken wings ,cup cake and egg in the clouds..ha ha ha ha ha [{ 🙂 }] look at ya thinking of me being in a Sandwich…

          • john

            How you post your comments 175 posts 170 was to me…

          • Debbie O’Grady

            and why would I do that?

          • Cat411

            Thanks, Debbie. 🙂

          • john

            I explained my position..Who talks that way but a robot or a martian… ha ha ha earth people I have explained my position now surrender your guns…ha ha ha funny

          • Cat411

            Someone with an education.

          • john

            And a robot and a martian too..I will forget more than you wil ever learn…well I don’t know you’re a robot..

          • Cat411

            You’ll forget more than I will ever learn?? That is the funniest thing I’ve heard you say yet! Haven’t you ever heard the saying that ‘with age comes wisdom’? I have you beat by a mile.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            you are welcome Cat.

          • john

            Debbie O’Grady sounds like a old woman that work in a cafeteria back in school with big grossly ,grisley , warts and growths all over neck and face…ewwww yucky You and cat411 both have cooties na na na na na na Debbie and Cat411 have cooties na na na na na na, ha ha ha ha ha he he :’ ( dont cry lil gurl don’t cry ..ha ha ha ha…

          • Debbie O’Grady

            And You john
            sound like someone who’s hiding something I’ve checked you out mate you didn’t expect I would find that out now did you, You hid it well..I Know what you are trying to do by shilltarding the comments here, you are a paid disinformation agent paid to discredit the Truth that is chemtrail/climate engineering/solar radiation management or whatever you want to call it – Sky Truth – spreading your spoon-fed Gov lies- is something but what You did to those children? there is No excuse – not even in the same league pal, that is why people are so angry with you, no smoke without fire bud – you were there – Why you have to be so vile to people who believe in climate engineering knowing you are guilty of far worst – beats me yet You call US ” pure scum”. What does that make you fella?

          • john

            Don’t wish things on others it can come back 3 times ta bite ya…KARMA… ; )

          • Cat411

            It’s obvious to me that you’re targeting William, which is a juvenille thing to do. I’m not a lib-tard, far from it, little boy. When you post on an open forum and say stupid sh|t, expect others to comment.

          • john

            Your a Lib- Tard Traitor..TITTY TAT CAT BOY….HA HA HA

          • Cat411

            Grow up! Do you even know what a lib-tard is?

          • john

            Ya I know what it is ..I came up with the word on here Im a vet on this site…And I will grow up and call it truths when you apologise for getting smart with me for no reason..I write letters make calls donate everything I can to help save our country and if I’m ever needed on the front line i’m there too..When it all goes down..But I apologise to you ..Be a man and do the same…peace

          • Cat411

            You came up with lib-tard? Really? It’s a slang word for a l|beral, which I am certainly not.

            I can’t be a man, I am a woman. (Cat as in Catherine) I didn’t get smart with you, all I did was point out that I thought you were confusing William with someone else. The only thing I’ll apologize for is misunderstanding that. You got smart with me when you told me to mind my own business and you know the rest.

            I accept your apology. It takes guts to admit when you’re wrong.

          • john

            Ha,,,see just like every lib-tard a person can’t win a dispute either..Your either right or nothing..You couldn’t of just said your right, let’s squash it but no..And like William he got smart with me and Being a total d!ck..so all I can say is little miss titty tat that can’t be wrong..Have a nice day …

          • Cat411

            I think I explained my position very cleary. Now get this straight.. I AM NOT A LIB-TARD (L|BERAL). I am a conservative. And I am not feeling well right now so please…. PEACE!

          • john

            That’s why I said have a nice day…Go to the doctor it can do you a million…titty tat gurl..

          • john

            I hear your kids could of helped you wipe your buns but you ate them…Mathuthsala

          • john

            I think your right Dale..And don’t worry oh William Burk got told off ..He’s just a hateful Lib-Tard… Taking life out on people running his gums..

        • William Burke

          ” Monsanto has produced a line of seeds that are aluminum resistant”

          BINGO!! Watch what they DO, not what they say.

          • john

            You should eat the corn the seeds produce…Yummy for the tummy… : )

      • dale ruff

        I am not trying to refute chemtrails, since not one atmospheric scientist thinks they exist. I am trying to show you that the burden is on you to explain why you know more the world’s atmospheric scientists.
        Where is your peer-reviewed evidence?

        You can believe what you want, unicorns, alien rulers, because belief is not based on evidence but on faith. I will stick with science.

        All you are saying is what you have read by non atmospheric scientists and since it comes without evidence, it can be dismissed without evidence.

        The fossil fuel industry shifts 6 trillion a year in costs (according to the IMF study) onto the public now. The purpose of curbing emissions thru such devices as a carbon tax is to reduce greenhouse gases and shift the cost back to the producers of dirty energy to motivate them to innovate and clean up their lethal emissions to avoid the tax and to promote alternative clean energy. .

        Carbon taxes have worked without raising taxes and have curbed emissions in the most successful economies in the world, including Ireland (6% growth rate), Germany, and Sweden. The taxes are used as dividends to consumers, to offset other taxes, and to promote green energy.

        You need to quit reading anti-science propaganda and crack a book on climate science and study how carbon taxes have worked in these nations, some of which have had them for over 20 years.

        Global warming is a global problem so necessarily requires a global solution.

        You need to educate yourself and quit repeating the bullshit funded by the cynical fossil fuel industry whose own research confirmed AGW over 40 years ago but who buried it and have funded anti-science propaganda to protect their tens of billions of profits, based on that shifting of costs to you and me through higher insurance premiums, higher taxes to subsidize oil and coal, and the cost of environmental and climate damage.

        You are being suckered. I urge you to give up your believes and learn some real science.

        • Cindy Myer

          Dale the world’s population has been brainwashed for decades including mainstream science, which is flawed, everything we know is wrong, including popular scientists and current scientific theories. Lets look at history for a second, centuries ago scientists and leaders told us that the earth was flat! That the earth orbited the sun, that the earth was the center of the universe. Do you still believe this? No! of course not because our technology has improved to the point where we can categorically say that this is not true. It was announced a year or so ago that scientists can now move particles of light FASTER than the speed of light. According to Einstein’s theory this is not possible, but it is. Now I read of Australian scientists have done experiments with time travel. The point I am making is nothing is set in stone, no matter how plausible it may seem. No matter how many scientists say it is true or isn’t true, really in fact, everything we know is wrong. Our science, our history is constantly been re-written because as the technology improves we discover that what we thought was so isn’t so after all. It is good to keep an open mind on these things. Chem-trails are real Dale. Stop denying this. I too have observed contrails and chem-trails. Contrails dissipate after minutes, these chem-trails last for hours. There is something going on in our skies. The videos on you tube ‘What in the world are they spraying’ and ‘Who In The World Is Spraying’ I think sum up pretty much the agenda. These are well researched videos and are not to be dismissed. You are fighting an up hill battle here on this website in trying to deny it. Most people here are witnesses to the effects of chem-trails and have taken the time to study this and are convinced it is a reality. You might do yourself a favor and stop trying to convince all these people otherwise and maybe do a bit of research yourself and KEEP AN OPEN MIND! Just because the mainstream media, mainstream scientists and the corporate controlled government says it isn’t true it doesn’t mean it isn’t. I love science but after years of reading articles that go against what I was taught at school years ago tells me that science is always changing as technology improves. Stop living in the past.

          • Cindy Myer

            Whoops typo alert, I meant to say that the sun orbited the Earth not the other way around. Hehehe, I have been enjoying the Christmas break a little too much today, my bad. But everything else I said still stands.

          • john

            I read a deal and now their saying the earth orbits the sun ..That we have been lied too..And we are not spinning like they say also…So you could have been right..And they say earth is flat ..I think it was 30’s or 40’s subs used a flat eath map..And this day they still use it..They said if they used the other map they would get lost and not no where they was going…So who’s right..I guess only Nasa and russia knows the truth..

      • William Burke

        HAARP in Alaska has apparently been shut down for a year and a half or so. So there are new locations somewhere.

        • john

          DUH!!!

      • Cat411

        Where did Dale mention chemtrails and wind power in the same sentence? I read his post several times. Not that I disagree with you about chemtrails and weather modification, but you’re getting off topic here.

        However, I do agree with Dale that we need to stop relying on fossil fuels for energy. Solar energy is the way to go. I have a few doubts about wind power.

        • James Paul

          It was above, here is the quote. It was in different sentences but still in the same post.

          “You are begging the question, assuming what requiires proof. Can you find an atmospheric scientist who accepts chemtrails? Contrails do indeed reduce sunlight, but they do not cool the atmosphere but warm it has they trap more energy than they let in.

          Solar energy is the fastest growing industry in the US. Wind energy is plauiable in many regions, from the coastal areas (where the most people live) to the mountains to the Saudi Arabia of wind, the MIdwest. You make assertions with no sources, no evidence, which means they are not facts but speculations.”

          • Cat411

            I replied to you the other day, but somehow it didn’t get posted. I have no idea why it wouldn’t have been approved. Anyway, thanks for pointing out what I missed.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            Some of my replies have also not been posted either Cat, John says he OWNS this site ? I wonder is this ran by shills too and only certain info is allowed ? I posted a whole page of evidence for John yesterday and it said waiting to be “approved” but it actually came from Active Post. I cant find it but if that hasn’t been posted then I am now dubious about Active post too…..

          • Cat411

            Nah, Activist Post are allright. I’ve been a subscriber for yrs. Sometimes things don’t get posted (are moderated) when they have links in them (unless seperated by spaces) or contain certain words. I found out the other day that ‘l|beral’ is one of those no-no words.

          • Cat411

            Debbie, I’ve been trying to reply to you for several minutes, but my posts keep getting moderated. I must’ve said something wrong. lol MAYBE 1 or 2 of em will turn up later.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            oh that’s very strange….. why is that I wonder? I hope this isn’t moderated by shills….

          • Cat411

            John doesn’t own this site.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            Cat I’m unable to reply to you so I’ll leave it for now and hope its just a glitch….

          • Cat411

            I don’t know why they’re so strict about posts, but I guess it keeps the riff-raff out, so that’s a good thing. We just have to figure out the bad words and find a way around them, like Lib(eral.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            yep I agree, and I’ve just posted a link with no spaces and it still wasn’t posted so I’ll have to figure that one out too…

    • berrybestfarm

      I live off grid so am a huge proponent of solar, wind, geo-thermal etc. Unfortunately none of these can economically heat a home in over half of the US. Heat is always the catch for individual systems. I live in an area with abundant firewood. Not something that can be used in many cities and suburbs where 85% of Americans live.

  • 83footsailor

    Sounds like this may have been an old garbage dump – from years ago – now this old dmup is spewing our the remains of the rotting garbage . ///////////// Time to cap this with some well diging and take this gas – using this as a power source to generate power instead of using OIL or COAL to fire the boilers to create the steam for the turbines to turn the generators – thus creating power . ///////////////////////////////

    • Val Shadowhawk

      I am inclined to agree with you in your assessment. Yes indeed. This methane can be tapped to be made useful as you correctly state. It is energy, being wasted and left to become another ‘Crisis to not go to waste’ by the usual suspects.

    • William Burke

      No. It’s an underground Natural Gas underground storage area. Did you not read what this place is?

      Natural gas has been PUMPED INTO this underground vault for DECADES!!!

      • James Paul

        This shows the problem with carbon sequestration also. You can pull it out of the air and pump it underground and the only thing you will achieve is a bunch of dead people when it starts leaking accidentally or intentionally.

        • William Burke

          “Sequestration”, I thought, was an issue in some recent court case. Seriously, CO2 levels are at nearly-historical lows. The times of the greatest biological diversification on Earth were the times of much higher CO2 levels in the atmosphere.

  • barbarakelly

    I’m glad this news has finally hit main stream. I have been e-mailing it all around on the internet., to get some ones attention. People were getting sick. And knowing how our gov. is slow to move, especially obama was pushing for gun control. This didn’t matter to him. The more people got sick so what. They didn’t matter, this is how I saw it. Obama is more devious then people know. I feel it. I have known him before he was elected and tried to warn people. They all thought I was crazy.!!!

    • Cat411

      I had no idea this was happening! This is the first I’ve heard of it. I’m glad it’s being brought to light now.

      Obama and his friggin gun control! You’re not crazy, barbara. I tried to warn people too and I didn’t ‘know’ him personally. It’s what I didn’t know that bothered me; the unanswered questions. This is the biggest political cover-up in American history.

      I’m curious…in what way did you know him before his theft of the office?

      • barbarakelly

        Call it my 6th instinct kicking in, or my bible knowledge . Ive had this happen to me on a few times. But the night before the election I couldn’t sleep, I was that worried. The next morning I couldn’t do anything. I just sunk to the ground and knew we were in for some bad times and if we would ever recover. Here is the kicker. Israel came a country back in 48, again. The Bible tells you they are the last generation.—-that is also for the world. He is not mocked, what he says comes true. And our Gens 12:3 says it all. And what obama has been trying to do to Israel, should make everyone shaking in their shoes, in worry.!! Can’t be any plainer then that.!!!

        • Cat411

          You said you ‘knew’ him before he was elected. So that would be in the spritual sense? Not trying to argue with you, it’s just you made it sound like you knew him personally, in the physical sense; that you’d met him or worked for him. You see?

    • Debbie O’Grady

      You are not crazy, apparently I am too….

  • Paul Panza

    Dioxin does anyone remember that this carcinogen is so dangerous that it has to be measured at the trillionth ratio of particulate. All incineration produces dioxin one of the reasons that environmentalists point this out regarding the coal energy cycle as well. Radon is an alpha emitter, that is to say radioactive and toxic. The benzene is a carcinogen I should know as my bladder cancer is related to a fuel oil spill that occurred at my residence when the fuel delivery man left the fuel pump in the on position causing the fuel to back up my vent and flood the roof of my house; the fumes were so intense I fell to the floor almost passing out. It is nine years later I have had 28 cystoscopys as my situation has to be continuously monitored so much for not being harmful. Fortunately I I have a good acupuncturist/herbalist, I use Spectro-Chrome Metry – light frequency healing; as well as the practice of Chi Gong and Tai Chi Ch’uan healing arts.

    • Cat411

      Good to know you’re not using chemotherapy. Have you tried CBD oil? I have a friend with breast cancer who swears that it works.

      • Debbie O’Grady

        CBD Oil works 100% I use it, my Dogs use it, in fact anyone I know who is sick, uses it… It Works. My friend who makes it has cured quite a few people and dogs, he doesn’t sell it – he Gives it away – and Doctors are scratching their heads as to where has the cancer has gone… Anyone can make it and everyone should have the right to use it, it cures pretty much everything being the oldest PUREST medicine known to man.

        • Cat411

          I’m always hearing or reading about all the things it can cure. If I ever get cancer (which runs in my family) I’m using CBD oil. Pharma companies will probably try to get it banned. :-/

          • Debbie O’Grady

            They have tried, but they cannot patent a Weed plant!!! I’m sorry to hear that in runs in the family Cat, and its a shame this wasn’t known about years ago (THEY of course knew) the same with Sweet Wormwood its a Chinese salad herb and cures 98% of breast cancer in less than 16 hours!!! when paired with Iron (28% without the iron) so there’s another cure… They don’t want us to be cured so I imagine now that they have legalised CBD oil as medicine in Colorado and various other states, what will happen is they will tamper with and destroy the healing properties… best way is to make your own.

          • Cat411

            I’m going to tell my friend about that Sweet Wormwood. 16 hrs!? Yeah, there ARE cures, the pharmas just don’t want you to know about em. My sister had lung cancer. Unfortunately she went with chemotherapy. One tiny little bottle (about 1-2 oz) of that poison cost $1600!! Needless to say, it didn’t work.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            🙁 so sorry, many, many pointless deaths… chemo is responsible for. If you take CBD oil AND have chemo there is NO point, but what they are now saying is that you should take CBD WITH chemo ??? and that’s how they are getting away with legalising it by saying it HELPS the chemo BS of course, but if they didn’t do that it wouldn’t be available I don’t think. $1600 ? WOW a high cost to pay to die…. I wasn’t aware it cost so much I’m shocked, but Cancer is BIG PHARMA BUSINESS and finding a cure goes against their profit making margin! I’m sorry your sister was taken but rest assured she is still here, her energy stays.

          • Cat411

            Yes, and her death was so unnecessary. It’s a long story, but if the docs had paid attention to her complaints before it was too late, she might still be alive today. She had so much to live for! I still get angry every time I think about it. I know she’s still with us in spirit, I talk to her all the time, but I would so much rather she were here in the flesh.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            I know.. Doctors have a lot to answer for. Did you see the AP report of Big PHARMA Deaths ? and how many people chemo have killed? I think if I’m not mistaken the figure is 7 MILLION plus since 2000!! Take a look, its not just chemo but their whole practice of killing us with their poisonous “medicine” is an eye opener for sure…

          • Cat411

            I haven’t read that report, but it doesn’t surprise me. I’ll check out the article.

            I don’t trust doctors anymore. You would not believe the cr@p I’ve been thru! I’m considering suing one doctor. I’ve got pieces of plastic (looks like a polymer) coming out of the side of my foot where the doc put artifical skin on the wound, caused by an infection. Long, long story.

          • Debbie O’Grady

            That doesn’t sound good at all, ANY infection like that will clear up within hours with the oil, if only I could send you some arrrggg how annoying!!! Which is why I take the oil because of what they did to me…. long story short but along with all the botched up kidney operations I had, I am unable to have children. I’m 45 now and was diagnosed 2 years ago with Autism. I am allergic to everything food/drink wise, even breathing in the toxic air can bring on a fatal Asthma attack.. I do not go out after heavy spraying because I cannot breath, every day is a struggle and this is what THEY did to me so that’s my reasons for wanting to take back control of my own life. BTW If you need a holiday and decide to visit the UK? come and see me 🙂

          • Cat411

            Wow, you’ve bee thru a lot, Debbie. Damn! I’m so sorry. 🙁 I understand everyday struggles. Same here. :-/ We have to live ‘conditionally’ and it suxxx!

            CBD would heal it within hours?! Chit! If I could only find some. I’ve had this wound since early July 2015! I fired the doc and the visiting nurses around the end of July after I realized what they were doing to me. Friggin quacks, all of em!

            I’d love to visit you in the UK. I’ve never been there, but I’ve always wanted to visit.

          • disqus_1yb8x39w7X

            Yep since I was born premature with bronchial pneumonia and deformed kidney, fighting for life seems normal add to that all the different drugs and jabs (vaccines) I was given as a child some of which were then banned, so its no wonder… but even now, still, we are all going through PIP – but that’s another story, targeting the sick and disabled…. Cameron has a lot to answer for as does Obummer. I would say the oil will definitely shift that but without seeing it, hard to say. I have seen skin cancers/complaints clear up within days, some within hours, its pretty potent stuff! And you actually pay these f***ers for the privilege!? Wow. It is beyond belief what they are doing to us I still pinch myself daily, is this for REAL? I saw a trailer yesterday for the new series of the X files starting in Feb, EVERYTHING they said is what is going on now!! such as alien technology, the NWO, agenda21 etc etc I could not believe my ears I had to rewind and listen again! A must watch I think… Then you are welcome to come over, we can sort something out…

        • Cat411

          My friend with cancer would sure love to get some free! She says it’s pretty expensive here in Texas. How can a person make it?

          • Debbie O’Grady

            All you have to do is go to phoenix tears website, I did provide a link earlier but it wasn’t allowed, Rick shows you how to make it, my friend is a marine biologist/scientist and hes been making this stuff for years as a smoke, not knowing its healing/cancer properties until I saw Rick Simpson “run from the cure” all he did was alter the process slightly and Bingo you have “life” saving medicine. Even old grannies are making it, but you must be careful and follow the rules and you will be fine.

        • Cat411

          My friend with cancer would sure love to get some free! She says it’s
          pretty expensive here in Texas. I don’t know for sure if it’s legal here. How can a person make it?

  • Cat411

    Here’s a better link for Clifford Carnicum… https: // carnicominstitute .org /wp / (delete the spaces)

    Dale: you wanted scientific evidence..

    • Val Shadowhawk

      THANKYOU!!!

      • Cat411

        You’re very welcome!! 🙂

  • Cat411

    Your mommy’s calling you. Time to get off the computer and go do something constructive.

  • Cat411

    Life on earth was so much better before industrialization. I’d give up every electronic and mechanical device I own to be able to go back in time a couple of hundred years. *sigh*

  • Troll Buster

    Hey everyone, save yourself the energy: dale ruff = Government TROLL.

    He lives off of this site, always selling global warming, denying geoengineering, defending NWO agenda.
    If he is not a troll don’t know who is….

    • Debbie O’Grady

      Well said Troll buster!

    • john

      Dale Ruff is really a troll…And I took up for him once …Wow my apologies…

  • Cat411

    Dale, you asked for it, you got it.

    Peer-Reviewed, Court-Admissible, Scientific Research Paper Published Exposing Geoengineering

    http :// stateofthenation2012 .com /?p=20032 (delete the spaces)

  • Cat411

    Want more evidence, Dale? Well, here ya go. http ://stateofthenation2012 .com/ ?p=5778

  • Cat411

    3016?? Dang, I’m gonna have to miss the party.

  • Chris

    So it wasn’t an emergency for the first 2 months? Jerry Brownhole for prison! I know of a whole family in the valley who have been sick for a couple months too, they still have no idea this is happening and despite telling them about it they are too sick to figure it out. They have been diagnosed with everything under the sun from Kaiser, who’s Documentors (Docs) seem too stupid to figure it out as well.

    • Cat411

      Most people live in a bubble of denial, because we’ve been conditioned to think that everything’s okay; the government will handle it. No worries! Hey, did you catch the game on TV last night?

      Many of us have woken up and opened our eyes to the truth.

      I hope the people you know in the valley wake up and realize something is very wrong and get the he|| out of there before they get more sick!

      The docs at Kaiser aren’t stupid, they’re programmed, too, and probably paid to keep quiet.

  • Cat411

    I didn’t see any more about these guys. Did they get silenced, too?

  • Cat411

    I’ve seen both of these videos and they do give excellent evidence of the dangerous chemicals being sprayed on us, and why. Dale probably won’t even look at them because they’re on youtube. Persistent contrails, my a$$!! I think those chemicals have affected his grey matter.

  • Alsetalokin

    Hey, Dale Ruff:

    No threats…just a simple guarantee. You are TOO well-informed to be ignorant of the expression “covert chemical warfare”.

    No, Dale…the SHAME is on YOU. Again, repent before you find yourself in the hands of the LIVING GOD.

    • Cat411

      Well said, thank you!!

      • Alsetalokin

        No thanks are necessary (except to God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, whose Spirit it is that informs us of these UNREPENTING liars of the synagogue of Satan).

        It is both my DUTY and PLEASURE to help the elect DEFEAT the vile enemies of both God AND man.

        Thanks and praise be to our Advocate and Righteous One, the Lord above All, Christ Jesus.

  • Alsetalokin

    The LIARS ought to be fighting against global POISONING, and not “warming”. Whether the environmental toxins be HOT or COLD, they are nevertheless TOXIC.

    Dale Ruff, can you gainsay or resist that?

    • Cat411

      You’re absolutely right! The louder we become, the more they can hear us.

      I noticed Dale (our resident persistent contrail) never replied to you.

  • Debbie O’Grady

    Thank god for that, thanks Cat, AP is one of those sites you come to for truth, but I thought that about GSW too, what a mistake that was… so yes it must have been the link I sent from AP but you’re right why I even bothered I do not know, we have ALL given him the evidence he demanded which he then ignores or disappears ! People/shills like him are determined to take over sites like this with their fake science but luckily on AP unlike youtube or fb thankfully the comments and “likes” are genuine.

    • Cat411

      Well, all my pending posts are showing up NOW. Jeeeez!

      It’s a shame the shills/skeptics take over those sites, when we need them! There are a few bozos here, but they usually get shutdown by the truth-seekers… except for Dale. He is like a ‘persistent contrail’ (as he calls chemtrails). He spreads his lies and just won’t dissipate.

      • Debbie O’Grady

        yay! ha ha well said what a GREAT analogy of Dale, I love that they get shut down on here, it keeps me coming back! the others are only great if you agree with what they say…. which I don’t. but that pesky Dale just wont dissipate ! LOVE it lmao…

        • Cat411

          Thanks! I thought it summed him up pretty well. lol I’m going to refer to him as a persistent contrail from now on.

        • Cat411

          They get shut down because WE outnumber and out-class THEM. 😉

          • Debbie O’Grady

            Well said 😉

  • Cat411

    Thanks, Debbie! I’ve been reading the comments that suggest using ethyl alcohol instead of naptha, but it’s very interesting. I’m not sure if I have the guts to try making it myself though! lol

    • Debbie O’Grady

      Your welcome Cat, you will get your head around making it if you had to, a matter of life or death you will find a way! Which reminds me of Shona Banda I think her name is, I’ve read her book on curing herself with RSO that poor girl, you should get a copy, its only a small book but she shows you other ways to get the oil inside you… which I cant remember right now but she cured herself against all the odds. My friend uses Isopropanol but you cant get that 100% anymore for that reason!! (crafty gits) so he uses a Steel which was made specially and that purifies the 99% into 100% clean for medicine.

      • Cat411

        I imagine if I had to have it, I’d do it. I hope if or when it comes down to that, it’ll be more readily available to everyone. I’ll check out that Shona Banda. I like reading about people who’ve beaten the odds.

        I wish I could give you my email address here. I think we have a lot in common. We’ve already hit it off pretty well. 🙂

        • Debbie O’Grady

          You would, and you should, I bought my mum a copy too, (my mum is also on the oil) and she could not believe it… well worth it. I agree again Cat! yes we have a lot in common, in fact I have spoken more to you than anyone else, which says a lot, I am not a chatty person at all until stuff like this comes up, I have no time for people pushing Gov. lies, WE are all a product of what they have done to us over the years and look at the state we are all in? Its time we put our own health back into our OWN hands.

          • Cat411

            Yes, we do need to be in charge of our own health. The doctors don’t care, they aren’t in it for anything but the money! I think I figured out a way you can reach me. Look for the same nick on Google+. and join my circle. I’ll get an email notice then. 🙂

          • Cat411

            How much of the Sweet Wormwood and Iron does my friend need to take, and how often?

        • disqus_1yb8x39w7X

          I didn’t realise my profile was public! so I’ve gone private like you, but it means you cant follow me?! sorry Cat, surely we can swap email addresses somehow….

          • Cat411

            Well, mine was private for a bit because of J, but I changed it back. I don’t have anything on here to hide. Your nickname changed?

          • disqus_1yb8x39w7X

            Yes I thought it best what with the info I was posting…. and realising nobody else uses their own name, and its also something for the shills to bash me with…

          • Cat411

            Understandable. I do the same with my nicks. Safer.

          • Cat411

            Google+ (cat411+) look me up

          • Cat411

            I’m already following you. You can follow me now. I changed my privacy settings.

          • disqus_1yb8x39w7X

            why? have I missed something?

          • Cat411

            It was my Google+ nick. I didn’t want anyone else to see it. I hope you didn’t think I was trying to hit on you yesterday! I’m married, for 43 yrs. I just thought it’d be interesting to share what I have learned about chemtrails and other ‘conspiracy theorys’. 🙂

          • disqus_1yb8x39w7X

            OH NO!!! Sorry Cat pmsl DEFINITELY NOT I like men NOT WOmen oh no what made you think that?! I do get woman trying it on, yuck, horses for courses and all but not for me. I am sorry I gave you that impression, I’m interested in the same things as you, and offered you to the UK to fix you, nothing else, but I can see why you might have thought that…. I should watch what I say….!!!

          • Cat411

            No, it wasn’t about your offer to visit! I meant me asking you to contact me thru Google+. You never said anything after I posted it, so I figured you were thinking the wrong things. Sorry, Debbie. Miscommunications!

          • Cat411

            It wasn’t anything you said. I mean that I thought you thought I wanted to connect by email for the wrong reasons.

  • Cat411

    Great info, Debbie! I was searching for the patents earlier this morning, I found one, but you found a goldmine! Can’t argue with facts! Now if only we can get the ‘persistent contrail’ to open the link and read!!!

    • disqus_1yb8x39w7X

      I thought so too Cat! but I’ll bet the ‘Persistent Contrail has now buggered off let alone even bothered to read it… being FACTS and all.

      • Cat411

        I’m sure he did bugger off. He can’t handle the truth. He’s obviously a government shill. I’m always coming across the ‘persistent contrail’ on AP forums. I’ll be locked and loaded the next time I do! The old fart!

      • Cat411

        I spent the better part of the day yesterday researching chemtrails. There is tons of evidence on the net from reliable sources, but Dale and others like him don’t really want to see it, they just want to be arseholes. :-/

        • disqus_1yb8x39w7X

          That’s why I refuse to engage with them unless they are being bullies, they all Demand evidence and expect us not to be smart enough to find any…

          • Cat411

            Anyone with a brain could find it, it’s not that difficult. Besides, they know it’s true, but they’re paid to say it’s not, then I think they start believing the lies. Brainwashing.

  • Cat411

    done! Thanks

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