Thursday, February 14, 2013

You Think Jobs Are Scarce Now, Raise the Minimum Wage and Watch What Happens

Dees Illustration
Eric Blair
Activist Post

President Obama proposed raising the national minimum wage to $9/hour during his State of the Union address drawing cheers from the left.

Unfortunately they have little understanding of economics. Forced minimum wages will destroy or offshore many more jobs in America.

The left doesn't seem to understand that the state can't raise the standard of living for a populace through wage legislation. Additionally, raising the minimum wage doesn't address the root of the problem of why the standard of living is declining in the first place.

Those who genuinely care about social justice look for someone to blame for the declining standard of living; greedy business men, illegal immigrants for driving down wages, politicians who oppose minimum wage laws and so on. None of these are the real enemy.

As G. Edward Griffin wrote in The Creature From Jekyll Island;
The American people have no idea they are paying the bill. They know that someone is stealing their hubcaps, but they think it is the greedy businessman who raises prices or the selfish laborer who demands higher wages or the unworthy farmer who demands too much for his crop or the wealthy foreigner who bids up our prices. They do not realize that these groups also are victimized by a monetary system which is constantly being eroded in value by and through the Federal Reserve System. (pg. 33).

Our fractional reserve fiat monetary system has inflation built into it, causing higher prices for all goods and services. When wages aren't increased to match the higher cost of living, workers feel the pinch and demand that lawmakers do something.

However, the answer to social justice isn't raising wages through legislation, because that will in turn just raise the cost of living even more because businesses will have to pass those costs on to customers. Not because they're greedy, but because they have to survive.

For those who really want social justice, the solution is addressing a blood-sucking monetary system and restore sound money. Until then, all actions will be counterproductive to their good intentions.

Here's a short video that clearly explains the consequences of raising the minimum wage in global economy:



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55 comments:

Anonymous said...

Greasy, divisive disinformation. Nice work AP.

Paul Panza said...

Minimum wage should be near $30.00 per hr., this would be fair considering the value of the dollar.

Anonymous said...

A very selective use of economic facts to make a case for keeping people in low paying (some would say slave wage) jobs.

There is no such thing as a global economy. The economy is fixed, rigged and gamed by the big corporate giants who run it. The very suggestion that this open economy demands low wages and is 'competitive' is an insult to your readers.
The same vermin who shipped the jobs overseas now pay 'journalists' to blame workers for demanding a living wage for their work. The myth of the free market is trotted out by the fascists every time they want to lower wages. The big trillion dollar bailouts to banks and auto makers show that free markets and competition are myths.
A country that taxes corporate profits and demands that they pay a living wage to people used to be called a democracy.

Permitting corporate criminals to ship jobs overseas, bank offshore and pay no taxes on billions in profits is what ruined the job market in the USA, not workers wanting fair wages.
That stuff was mostly right wing Republican dogma, but Democrats played along too.
Cruel heartless gutless scribes who choose to blame the workers for wanting a decent wage while they deflect blame from corporate and government swine who are to blame really should be ashamed of themselves. Really ashamed.

Anonymous said...

I'm always amazed at how people think the workers living below the poverty line is a good thing

Anonymous said...

Anon, you're a moron if you think this is disinfo. The Fed is at the heart of the standard-of-living problem. If you don't fix the monetary policy, you'll be begging for politician's crumbs the rest of your life.

Anonymous said...

If minimum wage was $30/hr then McValue Meals will cost probably $30 or more.

Are you people that dense as to not understand that?

End the Fed and you'll solve a lot of the problem

Hide Behind said...

Minimum wage is a globalist dream and with people letting them phrase "a liveable wage" as is being parroted as some liberating event, and mainly it is not the working poor who are holleting for it but a miffle clsd of "some college and above crowd who will manage the live wagers and can plan their own economys.
Not that low wage earners won't like larger wage but they in turn will not give a damn about those who lose jpbs because of their wage increase
HUMAN NATURE

Where does $9.50 figure come from?
Look no further than Obamas health care plan.
In order to be able to charge the american working man for his coverage, at even the lowest coverage level; ys there are levels; and lower the numbers of people due to low wage exemptions it takes at present levels of employment as many 9.50 hr. Jobs as he can find.
Actually it is around $10.15 36hr week is what's needed to help fed defray obama care cost and is a highenough wage to krrp workers freaming of a better future
A future that 60% of american populace will never see.

Anonymous said...

Wow, AP has surprised me. Where'd did you get the video?

"Voluntary exchange?" First, the minimum wage jobs in this country are still here because they couldn't be outsourced. Simon needs someone to clean the toilets. He can import illegal labor and suppress wages. He can buy a congress critter to not allow a minimum wage. This is hardly a voluntary exchange.

Simon must accept a poverty wage from someone who may generate billions in profits for shareholders and management. Simon's wage should be set at a proportion of Edgar's. Labor should get a fair percentage of the profit it generates.

Furthermore, if Simon is to "compete" with offshore wages, the factory workers burned to death in Bangladesh were making $0.18 cents an hour. How can Simon "compete" with that?

I realize this Reagan bullshit has been sold to a new generation, but this... this is the same old GOP snake oil - the freedom to starve. Read up on the Robber Barons and realize that the economic situation today is even more extreme. The free market is gone the way of the Easter Bunny.

Anonymous said...

Anyone want to crowd source a propaganda video on the "unintended consequences" of the neo-Robber Barons destroying the buying power of its workers? Any pseudo-compassion for the po' widdle capitalist when he can no longer sell his cars to his workers? I'm sure he's planning on creating a consumer class in China, but that's hit a bit of a snag since China's own Robber Baron class is currently hiding its money in American real estate.

The ultimate unintended (?) consequence of Robber Barons is revolution.
Sure the Fed should go. Replaced by the Big Bad Government or is the Peterson Institute going to run it for us?

Anonymous said...

In 1969 the minimum wage was $1.65/hr. and gas was 25 cents a gallon, or less. At that ratio minimum wage should how be at least $3.50 x 6 or $21.00/ hr or more.

Anonymous said...

Up here in the mountains, the local bulletin boards advertise people offering to cut brush, whack weeds, clean houses. They are asking $15/hr. That's what the free market up here says their labor is worth: that's what they ask, and that's what they work for.

Anonymous said...

I know small business people are barely getting by. And I've reread your piece and acknowledge you are saying the root of the problem is the Fed. But that video. Damn, Eric.

Money has to circulate in an economy. Everything is relative. I noticed the propaganda film used a wage of $3 to make the contrast to $9 seem more extreme. No one pays $3 legally. But the number itself is less important than its relative position to necessities and god-forbid luxuries.

If the peasants cannot afford bread, there is going to be trouble. If we want to live together in peace and prosperity, there has to be a reasonable balance between the top and the bottom and a reasonable number of happy inbetween. That propaganda film denies this basic reality, instead pretending to care about the worker while arguing to ignore his plight of being squeezed between globalization depressing wages and benefits and inflation caused by central banks eroding the value of what's left.

Their other favorite straw man was regulation. Ooh, the burden of regulation. So they moved their jobs to China. Now everyone has seen Beijing's air. This year its pollution was 35 times the standard considered safe. Flights were grounded as visibility was reduced to 200 meters. And a Beijing hospital had a 35% increase in respiratory admissions.

These are known as externalities where someone else pays for your doing business. Someone make a video of fake concern about the unintended consequences of American businessmen being able to dump their externalities on unsuspecting people trying to breath in Beijing.

Unknown said...

if the cost of having a viable economy for the upper and middle class is 10s of millions of citizens working at poverty wages - then it absolutely should be allowed to collapse. If the stability of your lifestyle is dependent on slavery then it should be taken away.

Anonymous said...

The author and the producer of the video are making false assumptions. Their concepts are bad economic assumptions that totally miss any sense of reality.

Minimum wage is a good thing. It mitigates the concept of economic slavery.

The problem is 1) government is allowing and promoting the importation of foreign workers to that American jobs and lower wages and 2) government has disappeared trade tariffs. These would otherwise prevent cheap foreign goods from flooding the market to prevent the closing of American factories.

The United States does not produce much anymore. We a consumer nation living on credit. The middle class is disappearing and we are approaching a slave/elite society. Once the credit disappears, we are toast. That time is coming soon.

Hide Behind said...

1973 Adjusted gross income $33,987, gross income was $38, 546
Deductions were for payment of own SS tax state county and buisness tax, 5 dependents including self, work expenses including transportation and specialized clothing and interest plus own insurance payments.
Tax I had to pay including SS was just under $1000.
GAS $.35 Gal, hamburger 59 # and bread at 5 or more for a buck.
Motel room 8 to 15 bucks a night for 4 a meal for all under $20 and a movie for all + grub 10-20 bucks.
Rent a house very nice 150 tops and to many who looked there were plenty under that.
Beer ontap 25 to 40 a glass pop a dime sometimesa nickle.
A decent equiped auto might hit 4 k a pick up truck pushed hard to reach 3 k. A volks bug or type 181 was under 2.6 k and a caddy or lincoln at 6k.
An acre of land under 100 most just $50 and all permits andd water sewer and electrical together cost under $300 to build your own home without ned of a contractor.
A year of college cost under 4k and that included school cost rent feed and extra for pizzas and beer nights.
The average wage was slightly over $6 but most mills factorys and construction paid much more and all a man needed to earn 20to30k was a lunch box.
MANY a 2-3 bdr home for under 12 k and some with acreage to boot.
And then came the political scheme lets cause an energy (oil) shortage and it worked so well thy even did it on our electrical bill.
Then came another scheme lets make the little guy pay to clean up chemical air and big buisness and defensse industries polluted soils. So that by 1985 my buying power of 63 k was way lower that the. 33 k in 1973.

Anonymous said...

this just sounds like yet another rehash of Republican talking points
the same old thing we hear EVERY time there is talk of raising the minimum wage
blah blah blah

it's the end of the world AGAIN

Anonymous said...

This is simply an argument made by those who do very well with people living in despair and poverty. There is a great deal of money to be made by exploiting people.
All told if minimum wage is today what it was when I was 20 years old minimum wage would NOW be $27hr when standard of living and inflation and other basic factors are taken into consideration.
$27 an hour!

Anonymous said...

Inflation isn't necessarily a bad thing. If prices rise and wages rise accordingly, the standard of living remains the same. Problem is the standard of living is declining. The government finances itself by producing money. This is a tax to us, because it makes things more expensive. Our wages aren't rising. Jobs are being lost. A minimum wage at least puts some sort of cap on this.

What's wrong with everyone? said...

Even a $9 an hour minimum wage will get the people off the government dole. Everyone needs to remember that anyone who makes less than a living wage gets a nice stipend from the government as well. So if you in favor of no minimum wage you better be prepared to start paying out a lot more welfare.

Maybe the solution is to make employers responsible for any welfare their employees qualify for? I bet wages get closer to the living wage(estimated at $21/hr) real fast if that was the case.

Anonymous said...

The minimum wage is already about 9$ hr in Oregon and it's above 9$ hr in Washington State. McDonald's and Burger King haven't gone out of business, there. Wal-Mart's business is still going great guns in OR and WA. The world didn't end.

Just another 1%er argument to hoodwink the rest of us. Why are corporate mega-profits sacred but poor people working the crummiest jobs will destroy the economy if they get a few extra pennies?

Anonymous said...

Nice to see so many comments that disagree with this piece of right wing propaganda.

Anonymous said...

The working poor deserve $9 more than Goldman-Sachs employees do $1M (average salary).

I agree with all the comments about inflation. If we are going to have a minimum wage at all, we need to peg it to the TRUE inflation rate. Republicans are hypocrites for supporting a minimum wage, keeping it so low it's essentially meaningless.

-EMBER

djohnston said...

Sure, the minimum wage should be higher in order to stay proportional to rising inflation, (increase in the money supply), and to stay proportional to rising prices, (a symptom of inflation). So, according to what many of you are saying, let's go one step further. According to most estimates, the Fed now creates an additional $85 billion Federal Reserve notes each and every month, with no end in sight. That is a large surge of inflation (any increase in the money supply) each month and a huge surge of inflation every year. Why, then, shouldn't the minumum wage increase each year to keep up with rising prices? Why shouldn't the minimum wage increase each month? After all, people deserve a fair living wage, don't they?

The problem with this strategy is:

(1) The employers must pass the increased cost of labor to the consumer in the form of higher prices for goods and/or services. ALL employers. The effect will be that prices rise to the proportionate level of (un)affordability they were before the minimum wage was increased.

(2) Businesses will have to increase prices yet again due to the same rising prices from their suppliers. If they don't, they will soon operate at a loss and have to close their operations. This would have the effect of laying off ALL workers, minimum wage earners on up the ladder.

(3) The end result would be that prices would soon rise faster than wages could. It would be the Weimar Republic of the early 1920s all over again. People would collect their pay and immediately buy food before the prices increased again. A wheelbarrow full of Weimar banknotes was used to buy a loaf of bread.

"When the 1,000-billion Mark note came out, few bothered to collect the change when they spent it. By November 1923, with one dollar equal to one trillion Marks, the breakdown was complete. The currency had lost meaning."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/shared/minitext/ess_germanhyperinflation.html

Let's look to recent U.S. history for the effect raising the minimum wage has on jobs.

"Congress raised the minimum wage 10.6% in July, 2009 ... In the ensuring [sic] 6 months, nearly 600,000 teen jobs disappeared, even with nearly 4% growth in the economy, this compared to a loss of 250,000 jobs in the first half of the year as GDP growth declined by 4% Why? When you raise the price of anything, people take less of it, including labor." (The minimum wage was increased from $6.55 an hour to $7.25.)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/williamdunkelberg/2012/12/31/why-raising-the-minimum-wage-kills-jobs/

From a reason.com article posted July 23rd, 2009:

"David Neumark, a professor at the University of California, Irvine, estimates this rise will destroy some 300,000 jobs among teens and young adults."

http://reason.com/archives/2009/07/23/the-dangerous-minimum-wage-mir

So, professor Neumark was half right. He said the job loss would be 300,000. The U.S. Bureau of Labor and Statistics measured the actual loss at 600,000, after the fact. An historical perspective. From the same reason.com article:

"Economist Alan Reynolds of the libertarian Cato Institute in Washington has found that when the minimum wage went up in 1996 and 1997, the number of workers beneath the floor expanded by more than 75 percent—even though the economy was booming. It looks like the minimum wage destroys some low-paying jobs and replaces them with lower-paying ones, to the detriment of the people who are supposed to benefit.

Economics punctures alluring myths about the sources of material improvement, which is why it is known as the "dismal science." But the victims of the minimum wage will find that the truly dismal thing about economics is what happens when you ignore it."

djohnston said...

The points made by Eric Blair in the article are still valid:

(1) "Forced minimum wages will destroy or offshore many more jobs in America." TRUE

(2) "... the state can't raise the standard of living for a populace through wage legislation. Additionally, raising the minimum wage doesn't address the root of the problem of why the standard of living is declining in the first place." TRUE

(3) "Our fractional reserve fiat monetary system has inflation built into it, causing higher prices for all goods and services. When wages aren't increased to match the higher cost of living, workers feel the pinch and demand that lawmakers do something." TRUE

(4) "However, the answer to social justice isn't raising wages through legislation, because that will in turn just raise the cost of living even more because businesses will have to pass those costs on to customers. Not because they're greedy, but because they have to survive." TRUE

The private Federal Reserve corporation and its owners are the real culprits here. They are the ones responsible for inflation (any increase in the money supply). The results of inflation are ever increasing prices (a symptom of inflation, not the cause). Raising the minimum wage will not solve the problem if inflation continues unchecked. Raising the minimum wage is treating the symptoms rather than the root cause.

How many of you know that today's Federal Reserve note is worth less than 3% of the value of a 1912 dollar? (The Federal Reserve began in 1913.) How many of you know that $100 face value of gold coins bought in 1912 will still buy the same amount of goods and services today?

Put on your "thinking caps". Unplug from the matrix. Don't drink the false paradigm left versus right, Republican versus Democrat Koolaid. Both sides work for the same puppet masters. Do some logical, reasoned thinking. Look to the long term effects beyond the short term ones. Learn from the past. Otherwise, you will end repeating its mistakes.

Activist said...

Hey Everybody,

Thanks for your comments. I knew this article would draw a lot of criticism.

First, I assure you this is not "right-wing" propaganda. I'm a progressive at heart, and I want a higher standard of living for every working person in the world. And I think our system is as unfair as most of you do.

Yet I'm also a student of economics. It is simply a fact that inflation (increased cost of living) is caused by the Fed. It is also a fact that if the gov't raises the minimum wage #1) Jobs will be offshored, and #2) the cost of everything will increase to make the "raise" worthless.

So, I want the working poor to have a better standard of living, but I think that raising the minimum wage by LAW accomplishes the opposite.

I used to be just like most of you critics, thinking people that opposed raising the minimum wage were hearltess. But once I actually studied it and got beyond my blind partisan hatred, it's obvious that it doesn't work -- as much as it may seem like the "right" thing to do.

Ask yourself the last time a gov't law ever helped the economy?

It's time to end the Fed and bring a fairer system for everyone, especially the working poor.

Thanks again for your comments.

Eric Blair

Anonymous said...

If we are going to live in this rigged financial system. Then yes the minnimum wage should definately be raised. Enough of fucking the little guy. Should be 12.00 per hour minnimun.

Anonymous said...

The minimum wage should be $50 a hour.
We are the richest nation in history: we an afford it if we practice shared prosperity instead of steal from the poor to enrich the privileged.

6 Walmart heirs, who do not work and created nothing, have more wealth (based on corporate welfare and slave labor) than 100 million Americans, mostly hardworking poor. This is obscene. Anyone who thinks $9 a hour will cause massive job losses totally misunderstands economics: higher wages means more spending, which creates jobs and profits, and more government revenue, and lower government welfare costs. If you work, you have the right to a living wage.

If you think that would destroy the economy, you are a great fool, for
where equality is increased, economic stability increases, and where inequality becomes extreme, the economy always collapses.

The minimum wage should be $50 a hour The top wage should be $100 a hour. None rich, none poor. WE already have extreme inequality: has it created jobs? Has it enriched the middle class? Has it reduced poverty?
Dale (against the grain)

Dean Jackson said...

If one hasn't taken Economics 101, then why comment on this article? It's clear most of the persons commenting on this article have no idea what they are talking about!

What happens if the price for an economic good increases (the price of milk, let's say), all other variables remaining constant? Less of the economic good is consumed. Well, the price of labor also obeys the Law of Supply and Demand. Therefore, as the price of labor increases, all other variables remaining constant, the number of those in the labor force will decrease (they become unemployed).

Minimum wage laws are "price controls", in this case the price of labor is artificially adjusted higher than it would be in the open competitive market, creating disequilibrium in the labor market. I'm sure we all learned in high school what happened when the Nixon administration on August 1, 1971 imposed Wage and Price Controls. The policy was a monumental failure for obvious reasons.


Anonymous said...

From the article the author wants us to believe that raising the minimum wage will create a huge problem and since the left doesn't understand that the real culpret in this story is the Federal Reserve, and if we want to fix the problem we do not need to raise the minimum wage, we need to go after the Federal Reserve.

But the truth is that the FR has been around for the last 100 years and they have systematicaly brought the country to the dire straights that we face today. The author even throws in a quote, from G. Edward Griffin, (The Creature From Jekyll Island) to help solidify their stance. I have a ton of respect for G. Edward Griffin and the things he has exposed, from this issue as well as the great work he did exposing 9/11. They are using Giffin's words against the people, not the FR.

One has to wonder where this attitude of blaming the FR was when the taxpayers were bailing out all the money institutions to the tune of some 16 Trillion dollars, or the subsadies the taxpayers give to big oil. If you watch the video you can get a better idea of just how good they present their case.....and I quote, "When we (the people) see social interactions that seem unfair, one response is to demand that the behaviour we disapprove of be outlawed. But this too has unintended consequences. Some people suspect that prohibiting voluntary exchange often does more harm then good. They believe that the proper function of law is to discourage the initiation of force."

But they had no problem of initiating force when they robbed, and continue to rob, the taxpayers. Once again they are blaming poor people for causing the economy to tank, while they stuff more money in their pockets.

Ryan said...

There's a serious problem with the idea of "wages" here.

Not all wages act the same. Consider the wages of the following "workers":

1) Factory worker producing gizmos
2) Programmer making a game/app
3) Lawyer defending so-called "criminals"
4) Waitress at your local diner
5) Electrician that fixes your fuse box

With #1 & #2, those jobs can disappear overseas.

However, with 3, 4, 5, just try and get someone half way across the planet to file a motion for you, or give you another cup of coffee, or fix your fuse box.

There are jobs that can and jobs that cannot be "outsourced".

All these discussions ignore this fundamental fact - NOBODY HAS INVENTED TELEPORTATION YET!!!

Why is this never addressed head on?

I just don't get it. It seems pretty simple.

I can either go down the street and pay $5 to have a shirt cleaned at the dry cleaners, or I can fly overseas and spend $1. I usually spend the $5...

Hide Behind said...

@ryan
Well telepotation has been invented in fact the chinese hold all the records for it.
They teleported the lat time over a lake several kilometers.
Fed caused inflation has been done to pay off the nations old bills many times and in fact the value of currency manipulations is much the same.
Now most of us don' t worry about what our currency is wotth overseas just what it will buy or by government provide domesticly.
I seem to remember just a little while back when the upper and most of the middle class were joyfully cheering on the demise of industrial wealth gor a consumer based economy.
An economy where none of them would ever sweat or get dirty just go to vollege and get a degree and manage others money or those who did sweat and seve theor needs
YOU GOT IT ONLY NOW YOU ALSO ARE NOT NEEDED, at least in the numbers you were before and if still employable not worth even mow what you are paid compared to those you pnce only wanted to serve you.
THe US population is far from some great society of entrepreneurs far from it andstill today ot is a carryover fron the industrial revolution of working for someone else.
OF that mentality the laziest and least productive and imaginative grouping are those in mi
In fact most of those today who make large salarys are they of tje corporstive mentality.
litary or any government body.
The spurt of say the fot com years and private initiative start ups went by real fast and now they too are wage earner mentality.
Corporates on their own became suicidal in the 70's but thete erre many valid reasons from theor perspectives to dhut fown and invest for better returns from fpreign dources.And wages had damned little to do with it.
Financial transactions are a lot easier to handle than trying to run an infustry. And ehen original ownership eho had been enterprising individuals no longer owned and operated the decline began.
Truth is americans are loisy entrepeneures but and suck as managers.
IN China there is a mentality that fosters owner managers of your own buisness than in US.
Our children are trained to go to work for somone else or the governmrnt and then to depend on them to provide you the means of luxury.
China in fact has financed their own growth not by direct investments in managing or even building the facilitys by american firms other thanby investing in shares of those industry.
Nike had nowheres near enough cash to build its own factory but got enough chinese investors to pay for the majority of their industry.
Any ways; the placing an income level on the jobs of 60% of the populace is but part of overal and. Overhaul of the new economy.
To all of you who holler for more industry will you be the ones on factory gloors or flipping burgers for living wage?
Or are you gping to believe you will rebuild and manage the old service and consumer industry.
And to those in government that seek higher tax revenues yo keep their jobs and send their children on low cost loans to be trained to manage the welfare programs of the60%.
BECAUSE IT IS FOR DAMN SURE A SURVIVORS WAGE and surviving is livinng on the edge.
A T 12 an hour your not cutting any fat hog and a family of four needs food rent and medical and lights subsidys.

Anonymous said...

The minimum wage debate seems more like a neocon-fascist driven wedge issue than a matter of practicality, and I agree with most comments that talking about a free market of wages is absurd in our rigged economy, rigged social ladder, bloated government, and crony capitalism.

I remember a debate stirring about ten years ago when globalist neocon think tanks (and some neolibs too) were making an argument in favor of importing cheap immigrant labor saying that the price of a head of lettuce would be $20 if the agricultural workers were paid a living wage. That assertion was quickly demolished when it was pointed out that economists generally estimate that the cost of labor only contributes about 5% to the cost of produce. In other words, it would only cost 10 cents more for that $2 head of lettuce to double the wages of he workers who pick it. The benefits would extend beyond the workers. How much would we save in the long run if unemployed Americans could work and stop depending on government handouts to survive? Then there are the enormous costs we have shouldered to provide illegal immigrants medical care, schooling for their kids, and welfare for the anchor children - all of this so the globalists can drive down wages and living standards, and socially balkanize the U.S. Don't get me wrong, I understand that the immigrants are pawns and unfortunately most only care about their immediate needs, not the social fabric of our society and civil liberties.

The botton line is that there are some social policy issues that we can all agree on and most people, if well informed, would make these choices (of supporting reasonable labor standards) voluntarily by voting with their pocketbooks.

The U.S. economy is now so centrally controlled that money is strictly moved around in an endless shell game. Never forget that TPTB have stolen trillions - that is far more important than getting lost in purist Libertarian ideology on minimum wage.

Anonymous said...

This entire article and its silly little propaganda film can be summed up as this: "free market" fundamentalist bullshit.

Anonymous said...

Dean Jackson, all economic theories are based on ASSUMPTIONS.

Day one in economics class, or on a masters thesis, all economic models are based on ASSUMPTIONS.

The vermin spreading lies about minimum wage causing the flight of manufacturing jobs out of the country are being selective with their choice of issues to observe.
There is no free market, no free competition. Oligarchies exist is most industries, and corrupt governments allow criminal activity by the companies involved. Paying no taxes, banking offshore, polluting residential areas and labor abuses are all crimes. All of these problems are far more severe than some poor person wanting $10 an hour instead of $7.
Blaming workers is a greasy dishonest avoidance of the relevant facts, to do the bidding of the scummy corporate pigs who enslave us.

Anonymous said...

What you say is not the answer. You forget there is such a think as technological unemployment and it the large reasons why there are no jobs.

As I posted here before we are at the end of the money system and as such we need to support theZeitgeistMovement.com and theVenusProject.com

Otherwise your solution will not work due to the above reason as well as the pollution caused by the profit money system will do us in.

Yes, I am a left Libertarian.

Anonymous said...

Can someone please point me to some statistics that show that unemployment goes up and stays up, say through the following year, when the minimum wage has been increased in the past?

Anonymous said...

"GIVE ME CONTROL OF A NATIONS MONEY SUPPLY AND I CARE NOT WHO MAKES THE LAWS" quoted by Mayer Amschel ROTHSCHILD - why doesn't anyone look into that and the FEDERAL RESERVE - there's NOTHING "FEDERAL" about it!!! The $ and all currency was set on a crash course to devalue a long time ago - all was preplanned - doesn't matter what 'democans' or 'republicrats' have said or done - different sides of the SAME (DEVALUED) COIN!!! They are just selling you another bill of goods to make you believe there is a difference?! Are you really that blind to it all? All this talk of raising the min wage to a whopping $9/hr? REALLY? and how much do THEY make?????? Wow - can YOU live decently on $9/HR?? I sure as hell know that I cannot! This whole thing is even ludicrous!! Why do you think there's all this "shooting?" So they can confiscate our guns and we will have nothing to say! And where did all those "trillions" printed up $ go? Where? I personally knew of NOBODY here that was 'helped' people still had their homes foreclosed on.... funny , it was considered an act of WAR in WWII when Germany printed up pound notes and had them circulate in England - causing them major inflation -- oh and here it was done to "help" people ???????????? The whole situation is disgusting - people better get on the same page and DO SOMETHING!!! But wake the hell up first!!
Sick of this whole thing!

Anonymous said...

LOL! There ya go! Advocate for every American (except the 1% of course) to become an illegal Mexican and then watch what happens. No doubt the dough will be rolling on the streets with 300 million people making 2 bucks an hour. Stupid is as stupid does.

Anonymous said...

This is pretty effing funny. Those who advocate for the abolition of minimum wage are the ones making...ney, STEALING thousandths an hour yet they want the rest of the people to subside on 25 cents an hour or nothing at all. Whoever wrote this piece of shit needs to get his head out of his ass and stop watching FAUX NOISE. This truly is the sign of a mind of drugs.

Anonymous said...

Minimum wage for those who work, contribute to the economy, fight the wars and have made the country what it is, is a bad thing. Yet, giving billions to the parasites that have crashed the economy, engaged in unbridled imperialism, disaster capitalism and neo-feudalism is a good thing. Only in Amerika!

abinico said...

Eric, you flunked economics, didn't you.

Anonymous said...

Jesus would have destroyed Goldman Sachs and the Fereal Reserve a long time ago if He were our President. Jesus 2016 with Ron Paul as VP!

Gaylan said...

Select the choice of your death. That's the choice the registered voter has. Your democracy has the democratic, and republican party. The two always against each others policies. Where there is a house divided it will fall.

How do you like your "democracy" now?

BTW. Who gave you any rights? Where did they come from? And if the government (aka constitution) gave them to you is it not called privileges and not rights?

Gaylan said...

A bigger problem is this. When is one man more valuable than another?

Is it a man who can build a home? How about someone who magically twists numbers on paper to conform to a policy so his actions appear politically correct? Is it someone who is indebted for his education yet he is some how considered qualified to operate on someone's body?

Is it possible to have a currency that can be manipulated by anyone and yet be considered fair trade for products and services?

Are you suggesting with this ideology that women for example, can 'charge' for giving birth to a child? Is that not saying someone has a qualification by nature you may not have qualify for raising the minimum wage? When does the insanity stop?

I use to own several businesses. I suddenly found myself in the same boat as many employers are now going to have to do. Decide on the fate of his creation.

Many will shut it down. Now look at the problems. several millions more without jobs, because they simply can not afford to pay the enhanced labor wage, for want of sales when sales are not there to begin with.

Now we will have HUGE monopolies by force, that will devour the mom and pop stores that helped build the great nations that be. With the huge corps (dead) now in charge, there will no longer be a need for "full time" employees, because the insurance they are now having to pay. It's their loop hole, and way out.

Money is in itself an illusion. You never borrow interest into existence therefore, there will always be a debt, and nothing will ever be payed for in a bankruptcy.

Is it possible for a man to pay a debt with a debt?

Unknown said...

For those who want more information on the so-called "Federal Reserve System" (how it drives prices up, creates booms and busts, transfers wealth and power from the productive class to the parasitic class, etc.) there is a short / free book available online. Google "Meet The System"

Dean Jackson said...

Anonymous said, "Dean Jackson, all economic theories are based on ASSUMPTIONS."

Response: The 'Law of Supply and Demand' is a LAW, not a theory!

Anonymous said...

Why oh why do "deadheaders" persist in making up the laughable fairytale that raising the minimum wage will raise inflation? It not only goes against the basic fundamentals of economics, its an outright lie. Companies have pocketed the profits of workers ever-increasing PRODUCTIVITY for decades. If the minimum wage was pegged to worker productivity, it would be between $21 and $34 an hour. Thats actual profits, realy money that already exists, but goes to the CEOs and execs and multi-million dollar bonuses. It is not being manufactured by the Fed, it is simply being recirculated back into the the economy more efficiently, by going to the workers who actually EARNED it through their work efficiency (productivity).

Lets make it simple. You have $100. You can give it to the 9 people who worker and earned it, and will spend 100% of it back into the economy. Or give it to 1 person who will spend $15 on playtoys and throw the rest into his offshore accounts. Increase consumer spending and you expand the economy, producing greater demand for services and more employment. Cut off consumer spending by diverting it to the 1% who spend little, and you stifle growth, force millions onto welfare, and create a class of slaves denied what they rightfully earned. That is all ;)

Anonymous said...

Dean. Americans have ZERO choice to truly buy American goods.
Furnish your house, set your kids up for school, clothe a family..........you MUST buy crap from China, Mexico and other third world slave shops.

Demand is not reflective of the will of the people when a fascist system gives no choice to the people over what they can buy.
Faulty assumption on your part, shill-boy.
The law of supply and demand also assumes new suppliers are legally permitted to bring their products to market, a fair open market............now surely you are not going to suggest the USA is a fair open market.
Unless they pay you to say that Dean boy, then I'm sure you will. Pathetic.

Anonymous said...

You do not create wealth with a service and information economy and a bloated bureaucracy with a bunch of bureaucrats running areound scratching their rear end.

And you don't create wealth with a bunch of inside traders and speculators on Wall Street that have turned the exchanges into a gigantic consino.

You create wealth by turning raw materials into finished products.

Excess parasitic profits, profits earned without out work or effort and usury interest rates must be eliminated.

The 99% of working men and women are not asking for a redistribution of wealth; they are asking for a more equitable distribution of wealth where the scales of economic justice are more evenly balanced.

Predatory and monopoly capitalism is not a fair palaying field.

I keep hearing from the public education system and the main steam news meia how bad socialism is. They have turned it into a boogy man word. What do you think social security, medicare and public schools are? It is not a free lunch; you pay for these programs with your taxes. If you live in a civilized society; you have to pay your fair share.

Do you wan't to go back to the days of Herbert Hoover? Before there was any social security my great grandmother when she got old went into the little sisters of the poor on east 14th street in Oakland, California. Her 2 grown sons could not take care of her because neither 1 of them had a job.

djohnston said...

"Unless they pay you to say that Dean boy, then I'm sure you will. Pathetic."

What is pathetic is your propensity to resort to denigration with the term "boy". Even more pathetic is the cowardice of hiding behind the "anonymouse" identity.

Americans have "ZERO" chance of buying American made goods? What planet are you from?

Anonymous said...

Oh, splitting hairs and playing word games to get off topic, djohonson? Lame, but I'll play a round or two with ya.

Americans have ZERO chance of changing the demand side of the equation and putting significant pressure on the suppliers........because said suppliers (mass merchants who buy from China and other slave wage nations) are fascists in league with the corrupt government and have roughly 90% saturation of the consumer goods market.

The context which you pretend to miss is that in this fixed rigged market the supply side rules, there is no free competition and no option for the demand side to pressure the suppliers.
Mad at Home Depot, go to Lowes. Mad at Microsoft, buy Apple..........Oligarchy. Not a free market. But you already know that as a gainfully employed troll. But I commend you on your use of the tried and true troll tactic of playing dumb and requiring a lengthy wordy answer to properly refute your BS claim. And I might add that I never resorted to calling you boy, troll boy.
I'm from the planet that puts people and truth over greasy corporate propaganda, you?

djohnston said...

LOL. So many accusations and so little supporting evidence. I don't pretend to miss anything. I know the U.S. market is rigged. It still doesn't change economic principles that Dean Jackson has so aptly espoused.

And it doesn't change the fact that you resort to casting aspersions rather than engaging in a reasoned debate. For the record, I am 61 years old. So, to me, "boy" is a complement. And, for the record, I don't use Apple or Microsoft products at all. I have been using Linux since 2001.

End of conversation, oh hidden identity one.

Anonymous said...

Retreating to dogma......it still doesn't change economic principals.........
Seriously, that's all you got??
Waxing on about your age or pretend name means nothing, nothing. My name is Bob Smith, does that change anything, is it true? As true as djohnston and as relevant.

A rigged market enabled by a fascist government forces the American people to participate in their economy. The rules of a free market do not apply.
The lying scum who use these economic principals to justify their abuse of the people simply cannot refute the fact that their fake controlled market is above and beyond the simple supply demand economics they pay lip service to. I am surprised that someone would spend so much time at such a small insignificant site as this engaging in an argument he cannot win. But at least you have declared that for you the conversation is over.
Thank you for giving the last word to the working people instead of the greasy filthy banker scum who backed this article. Very good of you old chap.

Scott Hammer said...

You people who want to blame Republicans for the poor economy, want to blame Bush: You're 100% right. It was under Bush that the Minimum wage was increased 2 dollars an hour that began the whole financial crisis to begin with. Does your dollar buy way too much Milk, Bread or Gas?
Do you trust your employer to pull you into their office and say "Hey minimum wage just went up two dollars, here's your two dollar per hour raise." No? Congratulations, you just got demoted.

Anonymous said...

Minimun wage in France is adjusted for inflation .
The minimum wage is 12€ an hour ( $15 ) The difference is that you'll take home the full $15 an hour ...but you'll cost your employer $20 an hour ( all insurance charges deducted) you also get six weeks paid vacation a year starting the very first year ....trainees get a quarter of the minimum wage but cost nothing to the employers .. ther bill is paid by tax payers .
Where as in the states your minimum wage is only going to be raised
to $9 an hour ...before federal , state , & some local taxes are deducted ...and eventualy your privet health insurer fees ...which will leave you just about $7 a hour to pay your morgage or rent .
10% of the working classes remain unemployed in France everybody gets a check at the end of the month whether it is from the unemployment insurance of from the public fund ( paid for by gamers) for minimal living needs ... nobody is left out ...everybody has a decent place to stay except for illegals
the down side is that next January they'll have to raise the vat taxes from 5.5% for food to 10% and non comestibles from 20% to 25% in order to bail out Portugal who just joined the Europeen's "pig list"....§:-(
Germans seen to be doing fine , so moch so that they are hiring skilled French workers today ...

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